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Vasari
Vasari

posts: 33

09.04.2010 12:33   Quote
Points: 1   Vote

With all the well knowledged individuals out there

 

Can some please elaborate that Capoeira is not Witchcraft based... Meaning I need solid information that Capoeira is

not witchcraft based.

Ejodudu
Ejodudu

posts: 304

09.04.2010 14:08   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

With all the well knowledged individuals out there

 

Can some please elaborate that Capoeira is not Witchcraft based... Meaning I need solid information that Capoeira is

not witchcraft based.

Ok I will bite, first you have to answer a few questions;

1.) what is the meaning of "witchcraft based"?

2.) ...And then can you provide solid proof that Xtianity was not at its own infancy based on core principles of the .1)...?

NascimentoGrande
NascimentoGrande

posts: 48

09.04.2010 15:29   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

Ok I will bite, first you have to answer a few questions;

1.) what is the meaning of "witchcraft based"?

Perhaps it might be refering to things as 'people turning into bugs and flying away', corpo fechado, candomble etc? :-)

But frankly, Vasari, I'd say you don't have to fear. Starting with Regional school of Mestre Bimba, capoeira has been purely physical and witchcraft-free (allegedly to the point of renaming "Rabo de Arraia" to "Meia Lua de Compasso"). Later some candomble folclore shows might have been added, but that was for money, not because of their association with capoeira.

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

09.05.2010 07:48   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 I disagree, I believe mestre bimba removed the witchcraft element as the pointy hats frequently got in the way of au and headstands, also there are legends that some less scrupulous capoeristas reinforced theirs, leading, I believe to a couple of fatalities due to impalement during cabecadas, only in street rodas of course but the shadow of such events reached into the acadamies too.

I think rather than asking is there any witchcraft in capoeira, perhaps I could ask you why you desire it to be christian?

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

09.05.2010 12:17   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

1) Christianity rose up largely out of ancient egyptian religion.  For example, Moses was raised by pharoe's priests.  Then later he can raise his hands and part the sea.  Figure it out...DUH!  As a matter of fact, someone could easily argue that most christians today are doing it wrong ;)

 

2) Everyone saw capoeira in Harry Potter.  What does that tell you???

NascimentoGrande
NascimentoGrande

posts: 48

09.05.2010 14:02   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Yup because we all know that Christianity is stoooopid and it doesn't really matter whether you pray in the church or sacrifice some cigars to Exu, right? ;-)

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

09.05.2010 15:11   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

Yup because we all know that Christianity is stoooopid and it doesn't really matter whether you pray in the church or sacrifice some cigars to Exu, right? ;-)

 

christianity aint stoopid though a lot of its practioners can be a little blinkered to facts that challenge aspects of it... same as any other religion, but yeah to th second bit why should it matter, except to the individual, how they connect with the Divine/other/through the veil, or whatever you want to call it.. (assuming it exists, none of it can be prooved objectively..Wink)...

chapa-de-frente
chapa-de-frente

posts: 664

09.05.2010 17:19   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Someone giving you crap? because they dont understand what their looking at? that happens a lot through history.I dont really buy witchcraft, so it desnt affect me like it seems to affect you. but for some reason, i feel its influence in capoeira, from those who historically practiced things resembling it, to be a beautiful facet to the art. i respect people who do believe in witch craft, just as i dont have any hostility or warriness to people and respect those who are of any other religion or those with no belief system. i respect them because we all have to live on this crummy rock hurtling through space. and just because they may have "touched" something, i dont want that to be the reason to sheild myself from a new culture. Do you get scared when you are watching David Blane on TV? if so you've got issues.

BocaDeSiri
BocaDeSiri

posts: 16

09.05.2010 23:07   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Vasari,

 

Interesting question,

BocaDeSiri
BocaDeSiri

posts: 16

09.05.2010 23:20   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

Vasari,

 

Interesting question,

 Damn what hapened to the rest of my post, it was large and informative!

Take 2

Depends on your take on Solid, Capoeira and Candomble share roots. Having said that Catholocism and Candomble share alot in Bahia as well, try reading; 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Nosso_Senhor_do_Bonfim,_Salvador

and maybe expand on your view of "solid" and the "why" and people will be able to point you somewhere.

Lets see if this one posts......

 

Siri ;)

 

 

 

 

BocaDeSiri
BocaDeSiri

posts: 16

09.05.2010 23:20   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

Vasari,

 

Interesting question,

 Damn what hapened to the rest of my post, it was large and informative!

Take 2

Depends on your take on Solid, Capoeira and Candomble share roots. Having said that Catholocism and Candomble share alot in Bahia as well, try reading; 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Nosso_Senhor_do_Bonfim,_Salvador

and maybe expand on your view of "solid" and the "why" and people will be able to point you somewhere.

Lets see if this one posts......

 

Siri ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Success!

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

09.06.2010 01:51   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Dear Vasari,

 

Yes, it is often excluded from modern capoeira history, but capoeira was big in Colonial North America in Salem Massachusetts BEFORE the salem witch trials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials

Once they started dunking and burning people and doing weird shit like that, they stopped the capoeira.

 

Yours in Christ,

 

~Espantalho

Vasari
Vasari

posts: 33

09.06.2010 02:51   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

im asking this question because a person i know think capoeira is whitcraft based..

 

I don't believe it and they are christian as myself.. I just need solid information to prove it to them especially when they don't want me to practice

 

http://www.christianforums.com/t7491300/

Svetulka
Svetulka

posts: 419

09.06.2010 03:43   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Capoeira is not a witchcraft. Never was. The "founders" of capoeira however were not Christian. Except for some sailors from Europe, may be in the latter years...

However, when the practitioners of capoeira do come from religion that does allow witchcraft, there is no way to stop them to use their witchcraft powers to evoke the help of the spirits. Same as the native Americans going on war against the "whites". They used their witchcraft, didn't they?

:)

There is a very small thing alongside capoeira that can be considered witchcraft and that is the music. According to Decanio the rhythm of capoeira comes from the rhythm of Ijexa. However, in capoeira we use three berimbaus (or 1) as leading instruments whilst in candomble the musical evocation of spirits is done by 3 atabaques.

 

Bottom line – capoeira is witchcraft as much as kung-fu is, karate is and boxing. Yes, yes, boxing – since the roots of boxing can be traced to the engravings on the walls of Babylon.

chapa-de-frente
chapa-de-frente

posts: 664

09.06.2010 11:38   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Vasari,

let people think what they want.

Chapa

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

09.06.2010 15:08   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

Vasari,

let people think what they want.

Chapa

 Agree. Though I must say you article you posted up seems to have been written from an (uninformed) christian perspective already as it rambles on about witchcraft and crystal balls, I like some of the analogies in it though you may have shot yourself in the foot by posting it.

BocaDeSiri
BocaDeSiri

posts: 16

09.06.2010 23:19   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Vasari,

 Rocks and hard places eh ;)

First maybe two sneaky questions to ask your self  "how long have you been with her?" &  "how often do you train?" and "could this be part of the issue?"

Next, not sure if you’ll like this next one but it also covers religious issues with capoeira but from a muslim viewpoint

http://www.capoeira.com/community/forum/?action=goto&search=1#topic/CAN-MUSLIMS-PRACTICE-CAPOEIRA.htm

Versatil’s post is really worth a read and maybe a discussion about intent with the gf.

I’m sure we don’t need to point you to the various songs in capoeira that are very catholic. (maybe get the misses to wiki capoeira music)

Anyway hope some of this helps, meanwhile back to work.

Cheers

Siri ;)

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

09.07.2010 02:42   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

BocaDeSiri is right.  Tell her to KICK ROCKS!!!

 

 

...that way you get out of the hard places ;)

chapa-de-frente
chapa-de-frente

posts: 664

09.07.2010 12:14   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Boca, absolutly top knotch link. i cant believe i didnt read that while it was being contested.

Vasari, there are a crapload of mestres and other respected players who are Devout Christians, as well as Muslims, Jews, and a friend hwo brought me into capoeira is of the Hindi faith.

bro, you got nothin to worry about, as all these people who have gone before us (Mestre Joao Grande, Mestre Barrao etc.) have wrestled with these thoughts at one point or another.

in that link from boca de siri, what Versatil wrote is more than likely enough to put some worries to rest, even if it is from a Muslim view point (totally cool there), i find it can easily parallel questions from Christianity. by the way, i think everyone, of every religion or not, should take a class on world religions, so that there is more understanding about and between at least the more common faiths, cause knowledge about different beliefs and the customs associated with those beliefs, i think, can only help us as a people so that we may understand each other more.

-de-

M3inline6
M3inline6

posts: 825

09.07.2010 15:21   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

Boca, absolutly top knotch link. i cant believe i didnt read that while it was being contested.

Vasari, there are a crapload of mestres and other respected players who are Devout Christians, as well as Muslims, Jews, and a friend hwo brought me into capoeira is of the Hindi faith.

bro, you got nothin to worry about, as all these people who have gone before us (Mestre Joao Grande, Mestre Barrao etc.) have wrestled with these thoughts at one point or another.

in that link from boca de siri, what Versatil wrote is more than likely enough to put some worries to rest, even if it is from a Muslim view point (totally cool there), i find it can easily parallel questions from Christianity. by the way, i think everyone, of every religion or not, should take a class on world religions, so that there is more understanding about and between at least the more common faiths, cause knowledge about different beliefs and the customs associated with those beliefs, i think, can only help us as a people so that we may understand each other more.

-de-

 

+3

 

I think many of you have already echoed my sentiments.  Vasari, you know what Capoeira is and isn't.  Stop feeding into that person's b.s. which is causing you to question what you already know. 

NascimentoGrande
NascimentoGrande

posts: 48

09.07.2010 17:41   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 but yeah to th second bit why should it matter, except to the individual, how they connect with the Divine/other/through the veil, or whatever you want to call it.. (assuming it exists, none of it can be prooved objectively..Wink)...

 

Well it probably doesn't matter to you, but I guess it matters a lot to a Christian ;-) Same way it probably doesn't matter to you whether archimedean group is commutative or not, but for a mathematician, it's a big deal.

laite
laite

posts: 230

09.07.2010 21:26   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

I personally think that the OP should been given the chance to define "witchcraft based", because in the end elements of this would been found in both Christianity or Capoeira for that matter; like why do some types of Christian cross themselves as opposed to other types (I used types to signify its several divisions) of Christians? or is the cross actually symbolic of something other than Christianity?

The question is very loaded, but also a deep question that should be explored and not just face value answers imo anyways. Today most will agree Capoeira is secular but you will be fooled into believing it has NO esoteric nature.

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

09.08.2010 13:59   Quote
Points: 1   Vote

Broken broomsticks are where maculele sticks came from.

corvoLK
corvoLK

posts: 1023

09.09.2010 12:14   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

Broken broomsticks are where maculele sticks came from.

Please don't give away our secretes?

 

Vasari

Yes, Capoeira is based on African spiritual believe systems! ... Duh!

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

09.09.2010 16:18   Quote
Points: 1   Vote

 

 

Broken broomsticks are where maculele sticks came from.

Please don't give away our secretes?

 


Corvo, you are right.  Please accept my humble apologies.  I should not be giving away our secrets.

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

09.09.2010 17:26   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 

 but yeah to th second bit why should it matter, except to the individual, how they connect with the Divine/other/through the veil, or whatever you want to call it.. (assuming it exists, none of it can be prooved objectively..Wink)...

 

Well it probably doesn't matter to you, but I guess it matters a lot to a Christian ;-) Same way it probably doesn't matter to you whether archimedean group is commutative or not, but for a mathematician, it's a big deal.

 Dunno, suppose it depends whether you define your world on its substance/content or its boundaries and those things outside it. Also the old analogy of the blind men and the elephant springs to mind.

chapa-de-frente
chapa-de-frente

posts: 664

09.09.2010 21:38   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

Also the old analogy of the blind men and the elephant springs to mind.

WTF!?

ive heard of blind men and dogs.... and im not so sure Vasari will be coming back for a while...

EgyEira
EgyEira

posts: 119

09.10.2010 19:15   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

Dunno, suppose it depends whether you define your world on its substance/content or its boundaries and those things outside it. Also the old analogy of the blind men and the elephant springs to mind.

I'd like to hear that analogy

 

To the OP, it is not BASED on witchcraft or pagan religions but since these were the spiritual & religious beliefs of the first people (most of them) who played capoeira, relative terms are used a whole lot. It depends on the player; i'm a muslim so sometimes i change some words to fit me more and help me get in touch with nature and the divine while playing and before going into the roda. at the pe do berimbau, i don't do anything like the capoeiras i saw; i just say a silent prayer to center myself then off i go !

 

No one knows what/where capoeira came from and hence no one can even speculate what it was founded upon/from. The best bet is that its a fusion of many (some modified) elements of african traditions

 

Think of (the jogo de) Capoeira as an empty canvas that you are free to paint with whatever emotions & beliefs you have about God and the world

chapa-de-frente
chapa-de-frente

posts: 664

09.11.2010 00:19   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Think of (the jogo de) Capoeira as an empty canvas that you are free to paint with whatever emotions & beliefs you have about God and the world

Gotta use this, very nice

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

09.12.2010 06:03   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

o.k blind man an elephant story.. are you sitting comfortably..? Once there were three blind men having a stroll down the road when they hear a thudding noise as if some great beast is approaching. The bravest one calls out `who's there?' The answer comes from somewhere up in the air, don't be afraid its just an elephant. who are you? asks the blind man the elephants keeper comes the reply, The blindmen ask if they can meet the elephant as they have never met one before. the keeper agrees and each walk over to the elephant.  later they are discussing their experience and one says` isn't an elephant amazingly like a tree with wrinkled bark', `a tree?' says his companion `don't be stupid an elephant is like a snake thick and sinous' `what are you rabbiting on about says the third `an elephant is like the sail of a ship at sea, wide and flat and quivering in the wind'. They argue late into the night about the nature of the elephant an each leave in the morning to go their seperate ways unable to travel further with companions who cannot agree the wonderous event they experienced was the same.

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

09.12.2010 23:32   Quote
Points: 1   Vote

 

o.k blind man an elephant story.. are you sitting comfortably..? Once there were three blind men having a stroll down the road when they hear a thudding noise as if some great beast is approaching. The bravest one calls out `who's there?' The answer comes from somewhere up in the air, don't be afraid its just an elephant. who are you? asks the blind man the elephants keeper comes the reply, The blindmen ask if they can meet the elephant as they have never met one before. the keeper agrees and each walk over to the elephant.  later they are discussing their experience and one says` isn't an elephant amazingly like a tree with wrinkled bark', `a tree?' says his companion `don't be stupid an elephant is like a snake thick and sinous' `what are you rabbiting on about says the third `an elephant is like the sail of a ship at sea, wide and flat and quivering in the wind'. They argue late into the night about the nature of the elephant an each leave in the morning to go their seperate ways unable to travel further with companions who cannot agree the wonderous event they experienced was the same.

So was the elephant a christian or a capoeirista???

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

09.12.2010 23:34   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Furthermore, I would like to know if it was witchcraft that made the elephant change from an elephant to a tree with wrinkled bark, a snake thick and sinuous, and the sail of a ship at sea, wide and flat and quivering in the wind???

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

09.13.2010 00:57   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

So was the elephant a christian or a capoeirista???

 

Neither he was a taekwondo expert(hence the heavy stamping) and a  part time witchdoctor, Honestly try to read between the lines a little better ;)

NascimentoGrande
NascimentoGrande

posts: 48

09.14.2010 15:54   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

o.k blind man an elephant story.. are you sitting comfortably..? Once there were three blind men having a stroll down the road when they hear a thudding noise as if some great beast is approaching. The bravest one calls out `who's there?' The answer comes from somewhere up in the air, don't be afraid its just an elephant. who are you? asks the blind man the elephants keeper comes the reply, The blindmen ask if they can meet the elephant as they have never met one before. the keeper agrees and each walk over to the elephant.  later they are discussing their experience and one says` isn't an elephant amazingly like a tree with wrinkled bark', `a tree?' says his companion `don't be stupid an elephant is like a snake thick and sinous' `what are you rabbiting on about says the third `an elephant is like the sail of a ship at sea, wide and flat and quivering in the wind'. They argue late into the night about the nature of the elephant an each leave in the morning to go their seperate ways unable to travel further with companions who cannot agree the wonderous event they experienced was the same.

 What I find funny about the story is that modern man usually believes himself to be the sharp-sighted one who actually sees the elephant, and respective religions as the blind men arguing; while in fact he has his head up the elephant's butt and thinks he sees (and smells) all there is to the universe.

laite
laite

posts: 230

09.14.2010 22:40   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

o.k blind man an elephant story.. are you sitting comfortably..? Once there were three blind men having a stroll down the road when they hear a thudding noise as if some great beast is approaching. The bravest one calls out `who's there?' The answer comes from somewhere up in the air, don't be afraid its just an elephant. who are you? asks the blind man the elephants keeper comes the reply, The blindmen ask if they can meet the elephant as they have never met one before. the keeper agrees and each walk over to the elephant.  later they are discussing their experience and one says` isn't an elephant amazingly like a tree with wrinkled bark', `a tree?' says his companion `don't be stupid an elephant is like a snake thick and sinous' `what are you rabbiting on about says the third `an elephant is like the sail of a ship at sea, wide and flat and quivering in the wind'. They argue late into the night about the nature of the elephant an each leave in the morning to go their seperate ways unable to travel further with companions who cannot agree the wonderous event they experienced was the same.

What I find funny about the story is that modern man usually believes himself to be the sharp-sighted one who actually sees the elephant, and respective religions as the blind men arguing; while in fact he has his head up the elephant's butt and thinks he sees (and smells) all there is to the universe.

lol, let me generalize here; you mean your average western man with the typical western mind lol Innocent

 

Espantalho1 you owe me a new keyboard that was funny! Anyways the Elephant analogy does work lol

EgyEira
EgyEira

posts: 119

09.18.2010 07:35   Quote
Points: 1   Vote

 

 

 

So was the elephant a christian or a capoeirista???

 

Neither he was a taekwondo expert(hence the heavy stamping) and a  part time witchdoctor, Honestly try to read between the lines a little better ;)

LMAO ! i love you azeitona Laughing

and that story btw; the meaning i gave it is that everyone in this world is like the three blind-men who can only see a piece of the puzzle. Only those who realize that they have only a piece of the puzzle can accept other conflicting pieces and piece them together to understand the bigger picture of the universe; and in doing so, they are able to see again (to varying degrees)

 

Those who are still convinced that the piece they have IS the whole picture are the ones who choose to be blind

 

I love it :)

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

09.18.2010 11:36   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

cheers egyeiraLaughing think the sufis made it up originally so I can't take the credit but its a damn good story.Smile

Akadume
Akadume

posts: 1

10.04.2010 23:04   Quote
Points: 1   Vote

Thanks for bringing this up. Everyone always have the answers, disagree, criticize and express all toughts.

Now anyone of you have actually come to a conclusion? Today...in this days...Does Capoeira in fact has witchcraft influence?

Yes! Capoeira is magic, there is magic everywhere every moment in different approaches to eachone philosophy.

It is impossible to remove magic from Capoeira as you know everything going around circles generate energy. M.B. Has his intentions, but i strongly believe he didn't remove his magic from his soul.

Even if you seek for God it doesn't mean you won't see evil. The Church it self has strong it's temptations even tho is a source of holy magic.

Witchcraft is often associated with black magic, but if you looking in the dictionary it means the connection with supernatural.

We are all special and we have a gift from God which is our spirit, and our mission is to transform this spirit in a holy spirit.

There is nothing wrong in being connected with super natural powers and if you use this power to protect, to be wise, to grow is fine!

You can only become a victim to those powers if you don't believe they exist because they do, or if you believe they are evil it might be bad for you because you will feel chased by an imaginary negativity created by your own mind.

We must use our powers to protect, to promote evolution into the world.

Magic is not for envious and know at all, for those can be dangerous and promotes devolution.

Much love on your hearts and Axe (the force of life be with you)

- Delicada

 

 

laite
laite

posts: 230

10.04.2010 23:54   Quote
Points: 1   Vote

 

Thanks for bringing this up. Everyone always have the answers, disagree, criticize and express all toughts.

Now anyone of you have actually come to a conclusion? Today...in this days...Does Capoeira in fact has witchcraft influence?

Yes! Capoeira is magic, there is magic everywhere every moment in different approaches to eachone philosophy.

It is impossible to remove magic from Capoeira as you know everything going around circles generate energy. M.B. Has his intentions, but i strongly believe he didn't remove his magic from his soul.

Even if you seek for God it doesn't mean you won't see evil. The Church it self has strong it's temptations even tho is a source of holy magic.

Witchcraft is often associated with black magic, but if you looking in the dictionary it means the connection with supernatural.

We are all special and we have a gift from God which is our spirit, and our mission is to transform this spirit in a holy spirit.

There is nothing wrong in being connected with super natural powers and if you use this power to protect, to be wise, to grow is fine!

You can only become a victim to those powers if you don't believe they exist because they do, or if you believe they are evil it might be bad for you because you will feel chased by an imaginary negativity created by your own mind.

We must use our powers to protect, to promote evolution into the world.

Magic is not for envious and know at all, for those can be dangerous and promotes devolution.

Much love on your hearts and Axe (the force of life be with you)

- Delicada

 

 

Unfortunately this forum has slowed down for whatever reasons, it seems less traffic in any regards I agree with your assessment. Although I don't think the O.P actually explained "what witchcraft based" mean(t). Now Capoeira today is more secular than religious and in saying that NOT everyone will accept your view point, as valid as they may seem to you.

angelcapoeira
angelcapoeira

posts: 700

10.06.2010 08:53   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

NascimentoGrande: I love your answer to the elephant story. Espantalho: Neither one. The elephant represents God. The three blind men are 3 cristian capoeiristas: one is angola player, two is regionao and three is a capoeirista that is trying to learn capoeira on the internet without going to a class. Laughing

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

10.06.2010 19:30   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Dear Angelcapoeira,

 

Are you a Christian Angel, or a Capoeira Angel?

 

Are the three blind men the same three wise guys from the jesus story?  I remember seeing a camel in a nativity seen, but not an elephant.  Furthermore, I've worked at two restaurants in my life and both times I had a manager named jesus.  I'm not sure of the significance of that last part, but I thought I'd share.  Damn, i'm confused.

 

 

 

Is this the elephant???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha

 

Love,

 

~Espantalho

angelcapoeira
angelcapoeira

posts: 700

10.07.2010 15:28   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Espantalho: The answer to your first question: Both Everything else I'm just as confused as you are.

NascimentoGrande
NascimentoGrande

posts: 48

10.09.2010 23:18   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

universe.

lol, let me generalize here; you mean your average western man with the typical western mind lol Innocent

 

Not really. By "modern man" I mean every man (or woman, for that matter) that is a product of modernism and its philosophy and education. Unless you eat raw fish and live in a grass hut, that probably includes you.  ESPECIALLY it means those for whom the phrase "typical western mind" constitutes an insult, LOL.

 

The elephant story is interesting in that it tells you more about the person narrating it than about anything else. The person telling the story is implicitly saying that he understands the whole matter, while the persons who argue instead are "blind"=stupid (or even "choose to be stupid"). Which is laughable - average modern man knows about as much about religion as 15th century monk knew about sexual positions.

"From the sum of all points of view does not emerge the object in relief, but confusion."

 

 

laite
laite

posts: 230

10.11.2010 23:04   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 

universe.

lol, let me generalize here; you mean your average western man with the typical western mind lol Innocent

 

Not really. By "modern man" I mean every man (or woman, for that matter) that is a product of modernism and its philosophy and education. Unless you eat raw fish and live in a grass hut, that probably includes you.  ESPECIALLY it means those for whom the phrase "typical western mind" constitutes an insult, LOL.

 

The elephant story is interesting in that it tells you more about the person narrating it than about anything else. The person telling the story is implicitly saying that he understands the whole matter, while the persons who argue instead are "blind"=stupid (or even "choose to be stupid"). Which is laughable - average modern man knows about as much about religion as 15th century monk knew about sexual positions.

"From the sum of all points of view does not emerge the object in relief, but confusion."

 

 

Well you have a point...not sure where you are coming from though Tongue out you seem to have taken what I said out of context and slipped it in with a lol. I generalized and used typical and average; which should suggest something... it was to everyone and no in particular. Why speak for everyone? if you wanted me to explain why I used the words I used then just ask...no need for drawing me out...look up scientific reductionism or atomism (it is at its core a western phenomenon) which is ABSOLUTE antithesis to Holism!!

In any case, I agree with what you are saying in regards to the allegory of the blind men and the Elephant, in the end I am sure we are trying to expand on the samething but...!!

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

10.15.2010 17:08   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

  

 

The elephant story is interesting in that it tells you more about the person narrating it than about anything else. The person telling the story is implicitly saying that he understands the whole matter, while the persons who argue instead are "blind"=stupid (or even "choose to be stupid"). Which is laughable - average modern man knows about as much about religion as 15th century monk knew about sexual positions.

"From the sum of all points of view does not emerge the object in relief, but confusion."

 

 of course I know everything, let me let you into a secret (lean a little closer) I AM THE ELEPHANT.. how else could I tell the story?

P.S I find this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha quiet amusing. People rarely do an accurate potrayal of the number of legs I possess. You see rather like the white queen in alice in wonderland I actually run very very fast, so fast I appear to be creeping along ponderously moving my 4 legs which are a blur of many (moving very fast or have i mentioned that already?) espantalho.. someone is trying to tell you something..via your managers.I would tell you what but I would have to stop running an That would be truely disasterous.

devdaschar
devdaschar

posts: 2

10.18.2010 03:40   Quote
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Number of rings general legacy device discussion capoeira offline you may not post new threads. Fighting styles - ea sports mma general discussion - ea sports mma capoeira for self defence general self defense general self defense a forum for the discussion of general self defense concepts, ideas and techniques outside the traditional. Ign: martial arts capoeira ign is the ultimate martial arts capoeira resource for trailers, screenshots, cheats game help community game help message board general discussion submit cheats & codes. Number of rings - blackberryforums.com : your number one zone4 fight district / general discussion / fighting styles: topic: capoeira when doe the capoeria class come out cause it says. Capoeira guerreiros newark, nj (www.capoeiraguerreiros.org discussion sur youtube - capoeira fighter - windows live rss feed handy guides club mixed martial arts tips : how to learn capoeira kicksmma rss feed.

 

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devdaschar
devdaschar

posts: 2

10.18.2010 03:42   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Number of rings general legacy device discussion capoeira offline you may not post new threads. Fighting styles - ea sports mma general discussion - ea sports mma capoeira for self defence general self defense general self defense a forum for the discussion of general self defense concepts, ideas and techniques outside the traditional. Ign: martial arts capoeira ign is the ultimate martial arts capoeira resource for trailers, screenshots, cheats game help community game help message board general discussion submit cheats & codes.

 

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Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

10.19.2010 12:32   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 

The elephant story is interesting in that it tells you more about the person narrating it than about anything else. The person telling the story is implicitly saying that he understands the whole matter, while the persons who argue instead are "blind"=stupid (or even "choose to be stupid"). Which is laughable - average modern man knows about as much about religion as 15th century monk knew about sexual positions.

"From the sum of all points of view does not emerge the object in relief, but confusion."

 

of course I know everything, let me let you into a secret (lean a little closer) I AM THE ELEPHANT.. how else could I tell the story?

P.S I find this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha quiet amusing. People rarely do an accurate potrayal of the number of legs I possess. You see rather like the white queen in alice in wonderland I actually run very very fast, so fast I appear to be creeping along ponderously moving my 4 legs which are a blur of many (moving very fast or have i mentioned that already?) espantalho.. someone is trying to tell you something..via your managers.I would tell you what but I would have to stop running an That would be truely disasterous.

I have managers???  but I wanted an elephant for my birthday :(

Boy11
Boy11

posts: 1

10.20.2010 23:27   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

I thinks it's not witchcraft based. We're discussing about that topic with my friends and it end up with Capoeira is not really witchcraft based. There are lots of reasons.

 

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laite
laite

posts: 230

10.20.2010 23:50   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

I thinks it's not witchcraft based. We're discussing about that topic with my friends and it end up with Capoeira is not really witchcraft based. There are lots of reasons.

 

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I keep on seeing "witchcraft based" but NO ONE has defined it, nor describe it or even elements of it, nothing!?!? it seems very loaded!!

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

10.21.2010 08:46   Quote
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I agree.  Very loaded.  Are they specifically talking about wicca or some form of traditional witchcraft coming out of europe?  Those are the only people that I can think of that would be claiming to practice witchcraft.

 

Please define what you mean by witchcraft based.

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

10.21.2010 15:43   Quote
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Please define what you mean by witchcraft based.

 It means they keep the witches at the bottom..ObviouslyInnocent

 

Ejodudu
Ejodudu

posts: 304

10.21.2010 23:05   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

I thinks it's not witchcraft based. We're discussing about that topic with my friends and it end up with Capoeira is not really witchcraft based. There are lots of reasons.

 

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I keep on seeing "witchcraft based" but NO ONE has defined it, nor describe it or even elements of it, nothing!?!? it seems very loaded!!

Meaning practice done by "those" people, you know them people who are __________________<---you can insert your choice of words! keep it real, "witchcraft based" in the context is very loaded!!

corvoLK
corvoLK

posts: 1023

10.22.2010 16:07   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

"Can some please elaborate that Capoeira is not Witchcraft based... Meaning I need solid information that Capoeira is not witchcraft based."

 

This is a strange question/request. Buy witchcraft I’ll have to assume that this poster is referring to African traditional religions and or spiritual believe systems. So it reads (if my assumptions are correct) that this person needs solid information (with out a doubt) that Capoeira does not have any African traditional religion or African spiritual influences in it’s makeup (base), from it’s creators. Or that these influences no longer exist nor have any significance in today’s Capoeira.

It’s quite amusing to read that any one would need such assurances. As if a Christian would burn in hell (false construct) for participating in Capoeira games and song. To me, this sounds so xenophobic, I can’t imagine how this person can function in today’s world, unless every thing this person does is blessed by their church. This is the type of stuff that gives the church a bad name!

 

 

Ejodudu
Ejodudu

posts: 304

10.22.2010 23:12   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 

"Can some please elaborate that Capoeira is not Witchcraft based... Meaning I need solid information that Capoeira is not witchcraft based."

This is a strange question/request. Buy witchcraft I’ll have to assume that this poster is referring to African traditional religions and or spiritual believe systems. So it reads (if my assumptions are correct) that this person needs solid information (with out a doubt) that Capoeira does not have any African traditional religion or African spiritual influences in it’s makeup (base), from it’s creators. Or that these influences no longer exist nor have any significance in today’s Capoeira.

It’s quite amusing to read that any one would need such assurances. As if a Christian would burn in hell (false construct) for participating in Capoeira games and song. To me, this sounds so xenophobic, I can’t imagine how this person can function in today’s world, unless every thing this person does is blessed by their church. This is the type of stuff that gives the church a bad name!

Exactly!!! I was waiting for the OP to answer my questions but never did and people just ran with what they wanted to run with.

Xtianity as a WHOLE is based on many traditions mostly that of Africans and the Mediterranean belt e.g Parsees look up Zoroastrianism. Western Xtianity is another matter altogether regardless it is a continuation of some of this aforementioned traditions with Judaism at its core. Judaism in itself is also a tradition based on core African principles with those of the Canaanites; remember it is just now called JUDAISM. Everything is connected if one chooses to see the dots that connect. The discontinuity that exist today are intentional, mostly based on "isms" a construct, an artifice.

Witchcraft is a loose term on its own it can mean a variety of things, but they mostly connote magic or of the supernatural. In this context however, it is loaded because it has overtones. We do not know the dynamics of how Capoiera was constructed but you can bet your bottom Naira it was based on the traditions of stolen Africans. No one is asking you to believe it is witchcraft based, but it also is and it is not. If you want to go home and believe it isn't then you are by all means a free person; go home and say it isn't, it won't change what it is...just your perspective. Now those who respect it for what it is will enjoy it to its fullest because they accept it and get imbued by the experience...turn the left brain off, they say this art is on the right side!

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

10.23.2010 02:07   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

Please define what you mean by witchcraft based.

It means they keep the witches at the bottom..ObviouslyInnocent

 

Oh...that makes sense.  Thanks for explaining.

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

10.23.2010 02:21   Quote
Points: 1   Vote

 

 

"Can some please elaborate that Capoeira is not Witchcraft based... Meaning I need solid information that Capoeira is not witchcraft based."

This is a strange question/request. Buy witchcraft I’ll have to assume that this poster is referring to African traditional religions and or spiritual believe systems. So it reads (if my assumptions are correct) that this person needs solid information (with out a doubt) that Capoeira does not have any African traditional religion or African spiritual influences in it’s makeup (base), from it’s creators. Or that these influences no longer exist nor have any significance in today’s Capoeira.

It’s quite amusing to read that any one would need such assurances. As if a Christian would burn in hell (false construct) for participating in Capoeira games and song. To me, this sounds so xenophobic, I can’t imagine how this person can function in today’s world, unless every thing this person does is blessed by their church. This is the type of stuff that gives the church a bad name!

 

I completely agree Corvo.  Above all, it really shows a lack of class for Christians to say that they are going to heaven and everyone else is evil and going to hell.  So judgemental of them.  And ruling by fear and guilt, calling everything sin and everyone sinners.  But then again, because everyone else is evil, they can justify doing REAL evil to other people such as the spanish inquisitions, the salem witch trials, the trans atlantic slave trade, taking over countless indiginous peoples, invading countless countries etc, etc, etc.  When are Christians going to realize that the real evil is THEM thinking that they are better than everyone and trying to hurt everyone that doesn't think just like them.  So not classy.

I'm not saying that there aren't good people out there that are Christians, but having the attitude that you are gods chosen people and everyone else can go to hell doesn't make you special, it just makes you an asshole (no I'm not calling any one person here an asshole, I'm just making an example).

BocaDeSiri
BocaDeSiri

posts: 16

10.27.2010 11:08   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

Vasari????

Where are you??? I wanna know what happened Cry pls.

Siri

incamanrique
incamanrique

posts: 5

10.29.2010 14:02   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

Dear Vasari,

 

Yes, it is often excluded from modern capoeira history, but capoeira was big in Colonial North America in Salem Massachusetts BEFORE the salem witch trials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials

Once they started dunking and burning people and doing weird shit like that, they stopped the capoeira.

 

Yours in Christ,

 

~Espantalho

 Where did you find that it says they did Capoeira back in Salem?..? cause it did not say back on that link...

NascimentoGrande
NascimentoGrande

posts: 48

10.30.2010 17:17   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

of course I know everything, let me let you into a secret (lean a little closer) I AM THE ELEPHANT

Oh don't you worry, that just means there's more to love Wink

NascimentoGrande
NascimentoGrande

posts: 48

10.30.2010 17:27   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

I completely agree Corvo.  Above all, it really shows a lack of class for Christians to say that they are going to heaven and everyone else is evil and going to hell.  So judgemental of them.  And ruling by fear and guilt, calling everything sin and everyone sinners.  But then again, because everyone else is evil, they can justify doing REAL evil to other people such as the spanish inquisitions, the salem witch trials, the trans atlantic slave trade, taking over countless indiginous peoples, invading countless countries etc, etc, etc.  When are Christians going to realize that the real evil is THEM thinking that they are better than everyone and trying to hurt everyone that doesn't think just like them.  So not classy.

I'm not saying that there aren't good people out there that are Christians, but having the attitude that you are gods chosen people and everyone else can go to hell doesn't make you special, it just makes you an asshole (no I'm not calling any one person here an asshole, I'm just making an example).

Yeah, cause being judgmental is bad because...well because...being judgmental is baaad :-D

 

Seems like you completely miss the point of religions. Let me tell you my friend, if I knew I have the central engineer of this universe on my side, would I care if some misguided sheep thinks I'm an asshole? Hell naaaaaah :-D

 

Well, as I see it, there are 3 groups of people

 

1)the ones that think they know what they should do here (religionists)

2)the ones that think they don't know what they should do (atheists)

3)the ones that think that NOBODY in this world could know what he should do (the anti-religionists)

 

It's the third group that is the most stupid and obnoxious one. ;-)

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

10.31.2010 07:12   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 

 

 

Seems like you completely miss the point of religions. Let me tell you my friend, if I knew I have the central engineer of this universe on my side, would I care if some misguided sheep thinks I'm an asshole? Hell naaaaaah :-D

 

Well, as I see it, there are 3 groups of people

 

1)the ones that think they know what they should do here (religionists)

2)the ones that think they don't know what they should do (atheists)

3)the ones that think that NOBODY in this world could know what he should do (the anti-religionists)

 May I make an amendment to item 2, Atheists know what everyone else should do and that is NOT believe in any religion; as to do so makes the believing person illogical and flawed as a human being. the purest way, the right and true way, is to believe in nothing and you better convert NOW  (sorry all atheists I have met have been as rabid as the most rabid religous fundementalist)

Ejodudu
Ejodudu

posts: 304

10.31.2010 18:36   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems like you completely miss the point of religions. Let me tell you my friend, if I knew I have the central engineer of this universe on my side, would I care if some misguided sheep thinks I'm an asshole? Hell naaaaaah :-D

 

Well, as I see it, there are 3 groups of people

 

1)the ones that think they know what they should do here (religionists)

2)the ones that think they don't know what they should do (atheists)

3)the ones that think that NOBODY in this world could know what he should do (the anti-religionists)

May I make an amendment to item 2, Atheists know what everyone else should do and that is NOT believe in any religion; as to do so makes the believing person illogical and flawed as a human being. the purest way, the right and true way, is to believe in nothing and you better convert NOW  (sorry all atheists I have met have been as rabid as the most rabid religous fundementalist)

The thing is when folks say religion, they tend to use themselves as centers. All religion is NOT institutionalized!

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

11.01.2010 00:48   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 

I completely agree Corvo.  Above all, it really shows a lack of class for Christians to say that they are going to heaven and everyone else is evil and going to hell.  So judgemental of them.  And ruling by fear and guilt, calling everything sin and everyone sinners.  But then again, because everyone else is evil, they can justify doing REAL evil to other people such as the spanish inquisitions, the salem witch trials, the trans atlantic slave trade, taking over countless indiginous peoples, invading countless countries etc, etc, etc.  When are Christians going to realize that the real evil is THEM thinking that they are better than everyone and trying to hurt everyone that doesn't think just like them.  So not classy.

I'm not saying that there aren't good people out there that are Christians, but having the attitude that you are gods chosen people and everyone else can go to hell doesn't make you special, it just makes you an asshole (no I'm not calling any one person here an asshole, I'm just making an example).

Yeah, cause being judgmental is bad because...well because...being judgmental is baaad :-D

 

Seems like you completely miss the point of religions. Let me tell you my friend, if I knew I have the central engineer of this universe on my side, would I care if some misguided sheep thinks I'm an asshole? Hell naaaaaah :-D

 

Well, as I see it, there are 3 groups of people

 

1)the ones that think they know what they should do here (religionists)

2)the ones that think they don't know what they should do (atheists)

3)the ones that think that NOBODY in this world could know what he should do (the anti-religionists)

 

It's the third group that is the most stupid and obnoxious one. ;-)

I'm not anti religious, I just think christianity is evil.  As would be any religion responsible for horrors such as the spanish inquisition, the salem witch trials, the trans atlantic slave trade, etc, etc, etc.  Basically I stay away from letting myself be influenced by evil shit like that.  I have morals.  Maybe christianity works for some people and makes them better people, which is great if it does, but it's not for me and in my experience, I have seen that it allows a lot of good people to be influenced to do bad stuff.

 

It allows people to have the attitude of "if I have the central engineer of the universe on MY side, I can do whatever I want to someone else because they practice a different religion and therefore they can't have the REAL central engineer of the universe on THEIR side.  I might as well just take their land and enslave them"

 

"would I care if some misguided sheep thinks I'm an asshole"

 

I'm not a sheep.  I'm a lion.  I would never follow a religion that made me into a sheep.  I prefer to be empowered.  However, you're welcome to be a sheep if you would like to.  Christianity is a paternal model...always looking up to a shepherd or a father to look over it's flock or it's children.  I have no need to have a shepherd or a father telling me what to do.  I grew up a long time ago.

 

Sorry, I've just had some bad experiences with christianity.  I'm not trying to get anyone down.  It's just not for me.

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

11.01.2010 00:50   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems like you completely miss the point of religions. Let me tell you my friend, if I knew I have the central engineer of this universe on my side, would I care if some misguided sheep thinks I'm an asshole? Hell naaaaaah :-D

 

Well, as I see it, there are 3 groups of people

 

1)the ones that think they know what they should do here (religionists)

2)the ones that think they don't know what they should do (atheists)

3)the ones that think that NOBODY in this world could know what he should do (the anti-religionists)

May I make an amendment to item 2, Atheists know what everyone else should do and that is NOT believe in any religion; as to do so makes the believing person illogical and flawed as a human being. the purest way, the right and true way, is to believe in nothing and you better convert NOW  (sorry all atheists I have met have been as rabid as the most rabid religous fundementalist)

The thing is when folks say religion, they tend to use themselves as centers. All religion is NOT institutionalized!

Exactly!

laite
laite

posts: 230

08.12.2012 12:08   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

This was a beautiful thread, wondered what happened to Vasari? Hope he told his girl to kick rocks lol

 

Well wouldn't you know it, I was asked by a friend's friend last week;  "can I practice capoeira because I am a christian" I was going to let him have it then I thought very hard about the this here thread and made the decision to tell him to go and try capoeira regional (not because otherwise), rather it would have taking me more time to explain 'angolaism' to him.  He went to capoeira B in LA, he says he is loving it so maybe I am an undercover christian because I just made a convert whoopa lol

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

08.12.2012 16:24   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

This was a beautiful thread, wondered what happened to Vasari? Hope he told his girl to kick rocks lol

 Well wouldn't you know it, I was asked by a friend's friend last week;  "can I practice capoeira because I am a christian" I was going to let him have it then I thought very hard about the this here thread and made the decision to tell him to go and try capoeira regional (not because otherwise), rather it would have taking me more time to explain 'angolaism' to him.  He went to capoeira B in LA, he says he is loving it so maybe I am an undercover christian because I just made a convert whoopa lol

 Nice one on the conversion, :D Weirdly I recently had an intense debate with someone who had had a very negative experience of african religions and their possessing gods (interestingly something that seems to be carried over into fundamental christianity  not the negative experience the possession by god/s but I digress) Basically I had been invited to give a  talk and a very basic workshop on capoeira at a small very eccletic festival organised by pagans, hence loosley pagan themed, with workshops on everything from meditation and the gods to knitting. The person who objected was one of the organisers an they freaked out that I may endanger the festival and the people at via having a roda; Thy argued as a lot of the people attending could draw energy up easily and had practice of connecting with their gods, we may potentially create a gateway for the african gods to descend. Despite my detailed explanation that it couldnt happen they were adament to the point I decided not to do the talk for fear of the outcome of the hysteria it would whip up.

laite
laite

posts: 230

08.12.2012 18:22   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

 

This was a beautiful thread, wondered what happened to Vasari? Hope he told his girl to kick rocks lol

Well wouldn't you know it, I was asked by a friend's friend last week;  "can I practice capoeira because I am a christian" I was going to let him have it then I thought very hard about the this here thread and made the decision to tell him to go and try capoeira regional (not because otherwise), rather it would have taking me more time to explain 'angolaism' to him.  He went to capoeira B in LA, he says he is loving it so maybe I am an undercover christian because I just made a convert whoopa lol

Nice one on the conversion, :D Weirdly I recently had an intense debate with someone who had had a very negative experience of african religions and their possessing gods (interestingly something that seems to be carried over into fundamental christianity  not the negative experience the possession by god/s but I digress) Basically I had been invited to give a  talk and a very basic workshop on capoeira at a small very eccletic festival organised by pagans, hence loosley pagan themed, with workshops on everything from meditation and the gods to knitting. The person who objected was one of the organisers an they freaked out that I may endanger the festival and the people at via having a roda; Thy argued as a lot of the people attending could draw energy up easily and had practice of connecting with their gods, we may potentially create a gateway for the african gods to descend. Despite my detailed explanation that it couldnt happen they were adament to the point I decided not to do the talk for fear of the outcome of the hysteria it would whip up.

WTF! Wow you will swear on their calender it is 2012 yet Cry that was very diplomatic of you! Interestingly, I have went to a local African drumming circle, I will refrain from making any negative comments on the things that bothered me. I have learned and learning by talking to older folks and experienced people; it seems the FORCED cross over (atlantic) has created so much imbalance in energy that I saw people getting mounted but they were very, very violent or perhaps it is aggressive (toward others) not sure the difference these days. I think I can relate with their fears, although it is one thing to see it, it is however another to be third person and rolling with it. Hope you at least were able to get some peace from the workshop?

Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

08.13.2012 01:46   Quote
Points: 0   Vote

 

This was a beautiful thread, wondered what happened to Vasari? Hope he told his girl to kick rocks lol

 

Well wouldn't you know it, I was asked by a friend's friend last week;  "can I practice capoeira because I am a christian" I was going to let him have it then I thought very hard about the this here thread and made the decision to tell him to go and try capoeira regional (not because otherwise), rather it would have taking me more time to explain 'angolaism' to him.  He went to capoeira B in LA, he says he is loving it so maybe I am an undercover christian because I just made a convert whoopa lol

Wasn't M. Joao Pequeno a christian?  And M. Bimba was married to more than one priestess of candomble.  It all gets very confusing.  Some people want to claim to have a connection to their ancestors.  Some people aren't interested in that aspect.  Some people practice an african traditional religion and regularly work with and communicate with their ancestors so that they really do have a genuine connection to them.  I wouldn't say this way is right and that is wrong or really have an opinion one way or another.  Different people do different things and they are all on their own paths and own personal journeys.  For some people one group and way of training and doing things is good.  For other people another group and way of doing things is good.  Follow your heart and your own path.  If by capoeira B, you mean Capoeira Brasil, they are a talented group, but I would probably say that they are Contemporary Capoeira Regional and not the Capoeira Regional of M. Bimba.

laite
laite

posts: 230

08.13.2012 11:34   Quote
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This was a beautiful thread, wondered what happened to Vasari? Hope he told his girl to kick rocks lol

 

Well wouldn't you know it, I was asked by a friend's friend last week;  "can I practice capoeira because I am a christian" I was going to let him have it then I thought very hard about the this here thread and made the decision to tell him to go and try capoeira regional (not because otherwise), rather it would have taking me more time to explain 'angolaism' to him.  He went to capoeira B in LA, he says he is loving it so maybe I am an undercover christian because I just made a convert whoopa lol

Wasn't M. Joao Pequeno a christian?  And M. Bimba was married to more than one priestess of candomble.  It all gets very confusing.  Some people want to claim to have a connection to their ancestors.  Some people aren't interested in that aspect.  Some people practice an african traditional religion and regularly work with and communicate with their ancestors so that they really do have a genuine connection to them.  I wouldn't say this way is right and that is wrong or really have an opinion one way or another.  Different people do different things and they are all on their own paths and own personal journeys.  For some people one group and way of training and doing things is good.  For other people another group and way of doing things is good.  Follow your heart and your own path.  If by capoeira B, you mean Capoeira Brasil, they are a talented group, but I would probably say that they are Contemporary Capoeira Regional and not the Capoeira Regional of M. Bimba.

Yes I learned Mestre Joao Pequeno (BHS) converted later on in life and Mestre Bimba was heavily deep in Candomble. You are absolutely right, the group tends to direct the overall direction, but it ask a very interesting question. In most Angola groups this things are outwardly expressed (whether or not it is mimicry seems pointless this days) while for modern groups it isn't. Is this 'overtness' what people reject or is it what people associate with "voodun" ? I am not really sure. The guy asking me specifically saw me (his words: "gesture into the sky, the ground, around me, touch my head" ) perform several expressions that can be considered immoral to a Christian.

Espantalho1 this comment "different people do different things and they are all on their path and personal journey" is ABSOLUTELY true and a treasure to keep, but my brother will say I am sure you know, capoeira is a snake with two tongues Tongue out we say one thing here, but it is another there lol

BTW yes he went to capoeira brasil, even better he won't have to deal with this things we are talkign about lol

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

08.13.2012 14:04   Quote
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WTF! Wow you will swear on their calender it is 2012 yet Cry that was very diplomatic of you! Interestingly, I have went to a local African drumming circle, I will refrain from making any negative comments on the things that bothered me. I have learned and learning by talking to older folks and experienced people; it seems the FORCED cross over (atlantic) has created so much imbalance in energy that I saw people getting mounted but they were very, very violent or perhaps it is aggressive (toward others) not sure the difference these days. I think I can relate with their fears, although it is one thing to see it, it is however another to be third person and rolling with it. Hope you at least were able to get some peace from the workshop?

 Hey, sorry did neither talk nor workshop, a field full of people and possible mass hysteria, not my cup of tea atall. My thoughts were what will they gain versus loose, at my level of understanding loosing a talk an workshop about capoeira is no biggy, however for me being blamed for whatever subsequent `posessions' (ie hysterical people who have read too much Lord of the Rings watched too many horror films and not spent enough time in proper conversation with their gods) could be most awkward.

On another vein is it possible for people to get mounted when the right rhythm for the god isn't being played, I thought it was quiet specific?

 

An the difference for me between violence and aggresion is the former is the act of punching someone needlessly and the latter is the philosophy/state of mind that drives the desire to punch

laite
laite

posts: 230

08.13.2012 19:45   Quote
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WTF! Wow you will swear on their calender it is 2012 yet Cry that was very diplomatic of you! Interestingly, I have went to a local African drumming circle, I will refrain from making any negative comments on the things that bothered me. I have learned and learning by talking to older folks and experienced people; it seems the FORCED cross over (atlantic) has created so much imbalance in energy that I saw people getting mounted but they were very, very violent or perhaps it is aggressive (toward others) not sure the difference these days. I think I can relate with their fears, although it is one thing to see it, it is however another to be third person and rolling with it. Hope you at least were able to get some peace from the workshop?

Hey, sorry did neither talk nor workshop, a field full of people and possible mass hysteria, not my cup of tea atall. My thoughts were what will they gain versus loose, at my level of understanding loosing a talk an workshop about capoeira is no biggy, however for me being blamed for whatever subsequent `posessions' (ie hysterical people who have read too much Lord of the Rings watched too many horror films and not spent enough time in proper conversation with their gods) could be most awkward.

On another vein is it possible for people to get mounted when the right rhythm for the god isn't being played, I thought it was quiet specific?

 

An the difference for me between violence and aggresion is the former is the act of punching someone needlessly and the latter is the philosophy/state of mind that drives the desire to punch

Well that was wack; I feel you it is always better to err while taking away honey than to be right providing bees hahahahaha them loss

To be honest I don't know enough about drums circles, but I know about drums lol we are the ones who distinguish the personalities of the mounting spirits, the drums generate many types of rhythms that can take the 'self' to different places. That one is opened to it is the only requirement, the problem I think is the state of mind pre-mounting Undecided

and thanks for the explanation on the differences, they always confuse me :D

uirapuru
uirapuru

posts: 53

08.16.2012 09:52   Quote
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In my opinion, answer is not so obvious. Ofcourse, we could say that Capoeira IS BASED od Christianity, but anybody who knows a little more would add that capoeira is based PARTIALLY on Christianity. And that creates the problem. Honestly, there's a lot in Capoeira that could be treated as a 'sect', paganism and other stuff, let's call it - witchcraft. For example - in Christianity there's only cult for one God, one Jesus etc. Capoeira promotes (more or less ) a cult for a master and past masters, that could be seen already a blasphemy. And - as we know - there's also even more of other stuff, without even entering candomble and related.

That's also why I consider Brazilian culture as a little hipocrythic - on one hand you've got christianity and reaaaaaally great dedication (even greater than polish people I'm seeing), on the other there is a little bit too much of parallel beliefs, unfidelity (but it's common in latin cultures) and half-truths. But it's only my opinion, no offence.

laite
laite

posts: 230

08.17.2012 23:33   Quote
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In my opinion, answer is not so obvious. Ofcourse, we could say that Capoeira IS BASED on Christianity, but anybody who knows a little more would add that capoeira is based PARTIALLY on Christianity

And that creates the problem. Honestly, there's a lot in Capoeira that could be treated as a 'sect', paganism and other stuff, let's call it - witchcraft. For example - in Christianity there's only cult for one God, one Jesus etc. Capoeira promotes (more or less ) a cult for a master and past masters, that could be seen already a blasphemy. And - as we know - there's also even more of other stuff, without even entering candomble and related.

That's also why I consider Brazilian culture as a little hipocrythic - on one hand you've got christianity and reaaaaaally great dedication (even greater than polish people I'm seeing), on the other there is a little bit too much of parallel beliefs, unfidelity (but it's common in latin cultures) and half-truths. But it's only my opinion, no offence.

thanks for sharing I agree with you a little bit, in actuality though christianity can also be considered a 'sect'; there are several denominations called "Christians", there is also the artifact they revere like the crucifix, the bible etc and the fact that you can argue worshipping Jesus is also a form of ancestral worship. Unfortunately it is massa's religion so it is easy to make rules and point to other peoples religion as lesser.

Also no tradition or culture is without its double standards NONE! remember "all men are created equal" and yet there were slaves dying on the tip of massas whips. So one has to becareful how they present judgement, I personally think it is ingenious the way the African "hid" there religions to make it parallel with massas.


BTW there are NO absolute truths, this is the thing I learned hard in capoeira

lennon
lennon

posts: 507

08.19.2012 15:11   Quote
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thanks for sharing I agree with you a little bit, in actuality though christianity can also be considered a 'sect'; there are several denominations called "Christians", there is also the artifact they revere like the crucifix, the bible etc and the fact that you can argue worshipping Jesus is also a form of ancestral worship. Unfortunately it is massa's religion so it is easy to make rules and point to other peoples religion as lesser.

Also no tradition or culture is without its double standards NONE! remember "all men are created equal" and yet there were slaves dying on the tip of massas whips. So one has to becareful how they present judgement, I personally think it is ingenious the way the African "hid" there religions to make it parallel with massas.


BTW there are NO absolute truths, this is the thing I learned hard in capoeira

 There are no absolute truths in anything, a lot of people just create personal worlds in which they exist as existing in eternal uncertainty can be most unsettling. An there are strong parrells with what the slaves did and what the irish particulary did with catholicism, their gods simply became saints, no-one gets killed for not believing, the gods are still worshipped, everyone is happy. Laughing

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