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badnews3
badnews3

posts: 3

07.25.2002 03:07   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
I signed up a couple of dayz ago and already i love this art/sport. I read all the threads about capoeira as self defence. Now i am wondering and hope it doesnt sound stupid. What i wanted to as was that if there is any place in the US or Canada where one could learn Combat Capoeira as it is in Brazil.
Peninha
Peninha

posts: 204

07.25.2002 03:28   Quote
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"Combat Capoeira"??? A onde você achou isso?! LOL!
badnews3
badnews3

posts: 3

07.25.2002 03:39   Quote
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I said i am totally new and so had no idea ho to say. What i ment was intense form with maximum contact.
bones
bones

posts: 100

07.25.2002 03:44   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "badnews3": I think you are under the wrong impression. There is no "combat capoeira", as opposed to say some "dancing capoeira". Capoeira might have different styles, such as angola, contemporary or regional, and some styles might be rougher than others. All this depends on the school, the mestre, the style etc etc However, ask yourself is capoeira the right art if you are only interested in combat. Re-reading the slfdfnse thread and checking out the links to other resosurces might be a good idea. And personally, focusing only on the combat aspect (or any other aspects such as acrobatics or "cool" moves) of this art reduces it to some low level "ultimate martial art X", and you would be missing out on a lot. If you are looking for a school, your best bet is do a search for "capoeira +yourcity" in some search engine, or check the yellow pages. Of course you can also use the Capoeira School Forum also.
bones
bones

posts: 100

07.25.2002 03:48   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "badnews3": and the point is to REDUCE contact. If you are looking for max contact, maybe some full contact combat sport might be the way to go. Ive heard of full contact capoeira competition, and havnt heard much good. They basicallylook like some karate tournament with people trying to kicks ther heads off. Id be interested in anybody's opinion on this full contact thing, especially those of you with lots of experience. Bones
Peninha
Peninha

posts: 204

07.25.2002 04:41   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "badnews3": Maximum Contact is not what Capoeira is about. It's a "game" - you "play" with your opponant. That's one of the most enjoyable parts of Capoeira! If it's full contact you're after go for BJJ or Muay Thai, etc. Axé *PS - No doubt Shinsyotta will show up here soon and will refer you to Goeff Thompson - be warned!!!! www.geoffthompson.com LOL!! Beleza Shins?! ;) *
Arraia
Arraia

posts: 16

07.25.2002 08:01   Quote
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follow this link and you'll get an idea about the way the greater Capoeira population feel about "combat capoeira". http://www.capoeira.com/planetcapoeira/view.jsp?section=reviewsviewArticle= 146 I love to fight but i would never go looking or pick a fight, and i can say that the only thing I really use in fights that is result of capoeira study is the speed and reflexes I have gained. You gotta understand most street fights go to the ground very quickly. Take UFC, this is a arena where any style is welcome and can be used but the guys who always dominate it are the ground fighters. At least the Gracies are brazilian.
nehesi
nehesi

posts: 20

07.25.2002 08:29   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "badnews3": I guess a good way to put it is that Capoeira, although it can be used very effectively as a combart martial art, is not strictly about combat. In fact, Capoeristas strive to become so good that their opponent cannot touch them or "fall" them. I'm not gonna tell you not to study Capoeira, but if your intent is to merely kick your opponents butt, then study Capoeira and also study a grappling style like Brazalian Jiu-Jitsu. That way, you will have a well-rounded style - Capoeira to evade, attack and move around and then the Jiu-Jitsu when the fight (as most no holds barred street fights eventually do) ends up on the ground.
jakub
jakub

posts: 18

07.25.2002 09:12   Quote
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I spoke to one mestre who took a part in capoeira tournaments between '75-'79. What he's saying that capoeira is much different today as it was in the past. These tournaments were full contact and there was forbiden to attack groins and top fight on the ground. Later on, between 82-85 my mestre fought in tournaments with more rules. you couldn't atack groins, eyes, you couldn't freeze in position to attack, there was no fight on the ground and there was no throws with cathing the oponent. but anyway there was a full contact tournament. in their opinion capoeira lacks today of many aspects from the past.
Mae
Mae

posts: 409

07.25.2002 09:32   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "badnews3": Well, my grupo definately trains and plays full contact. We also learn a lot of grappling. Some schools are definately more fight oriented than others, but that doesn't mean our game is not still beautiful. Check out our website, www.axecapoeira.com as we have locations all over North America. Where exactly are you?
MarinheiroSD
MarinheiroSD

posts: 97

07.25.2002 10:12   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "badnews3": Sometimes in rodas at class more experienced players will (at least at my school) just occasionally play the harder games. You just have to practice more, get down the basics, get some experience. Once you feel you're at a level you're ready to play harder just kinda test the waters, watch out for the people who like to play the occasional hard game and kinda work up to that level of play. But don't go in your first day and try starting fights or anything. Get some experience, get knnown a little, and I'm sure there will be some people in your class who will play "luta" with you. Like everyone else said, don't make that your only purpose in Capoeira, to "kick ass".
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.25.2002 12:59   Quote
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Well if you're set on looking for self-defense, I know of this one really wicked self-defense art. It does a lot of awareness training so you can identify trouble before it happens. It also does a lot of behavioral studies so you can be in proximity to danger and behave in a manner that will not lead to violence. If you screw that up, or decide to fight, it's got you covered too. In that case, it's got a simple, quick, and effective system of concealed blades, head butts, and head-to-the-cement style takedowns. Really, it's amazing stuff, you all should consider checking it out.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.25.2002 13:30   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": Yes, the prophecy is coming true... READ WWW.GEOFFTHOMPSON.COM, Tarantula.
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.25.2002 14:56   Quote
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wait.. first.. is he a "grew up on the mean streets, worked as a bouncer (or bodyguard), seen/been in billions of fights" kinda guy??? or is he one of the "trained in classical martial arts for years, current champion of wherever, combined his own blend of with this other to create a brutal street fighting master art?? or am i completely off base?
badnews3
badnews3

posts: 3

07.25.2002 17:12   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Mae": I am currently in Maryland but will soon be moving to Toronto. Thankz for the site link i checked it out and will definately check the place out when i am in Canada.
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.25.2002 17:54   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "shinsyotta": ok, i just spent way to long reading that stuff. (he was the first type) Pretty much your standard 'real combat' book/lecture guy, i don't think i saw much there i haven't seen before. I'm sure he is very skilled and all that. What does it have to do with capoeira?
Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

07.25.2002 18:30   Quote
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ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Well if you're set on looking for self-defense, I know of this one really wicked self-defense art. It does a lot of awareness training so you can identify trouble before it happens. It also does a lot of behavioral studies so you can be in proximity to danger and behave in a manner that will not lead to violence. If you screw that up, or decide to fight, it's got you covered too. In that case, it's got a simple, quick, and effective system of concealed blades, head butts, and head-to-the-cement style takedowns. Really, it's amazing stuff, you all should consider checking it out. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I love how you said that. I couldn't have said it better.
Peninha
Peninha

posts: 204

07.26.2002 04:09   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": I'm not sure! But Shinsyotta defends his corner with this excuse, every time the Capoeira Self Defence discussion arises!! No hard feelings, Shins - actually, I really enjoyed reading the excerpts from Geoff's escapades. Hardcore! Um abração, capoeiras.
Peninha
Peninha

posts: 204

07.26.2002 04:13   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": BTW - I agree with Espantalho - you could not have put your first comment any better!! Valeo!
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.26.2002 06:05   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": And of course this self defense art is Capoeira Angola, as taught by Contra Mestre Perere. Give me a break. Capoeira Angola is only good for dancing nowadays.
marciano
marciano

posts: 650

07.26.2002 06:30   Quote
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ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "capoeiragoodboy": - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": And of course this self defense art is Capoeira Angola, as taught by Contra Mestre Perere. Give me a break. Capoeira Angola is only good for dancing nowadays. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Err, what do you base this opinion on?
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.26.2002 07:04   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "marciano": Try to use capoeira angola in a fight and it is all over. To slow, to soft, no way to get used to getting hit in the training. This does not make it irrelevant as an art that teaches about life. Just keep it in the roda, and don't try to get buffy bad ass with it, or make it something it's not. Nowadays it is a mostly a dance. Even in Grupo Palmares of Seattle when the great Perere teaches.
Xima
Xima

posts: 1

07.26.2002 08:08   Quote
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Hi.I think it is an effective type of a dance.Im sure you can use it in a self defence situation.I do understand your view.It is dance but a different kind of a dance.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.26.2002 09:02   Quote
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Well who should I listen to about self defence? Someone who has tried it or someone who hasn't? It's great that you don't fight because you are a balanced person who practices Angola and I'm not in any way dismissing that. However, when someone asks you how to defend themselves, they are asking about a violent situation and how to end it quickly. Assuming it already got past the point of walking away before it starts, the way to go is realistic training. I think Angola CAN be trained realistically but generally I agree with CGB once again. One of the probable reasons for his comment "give me a break" is that everyone thinks their art is the best and anyone with experience in martial arts has heard it a thousand times. I liked Nestor Capoeiras comments about playing within the fight, but remember that capoeira is a controlled fight with rules that allow room to play.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.26.2002 09:03   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "capoeiragoodboy": I think it can work if you DO hit each other and get used to being hit (with hands as well) and taken down.
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.26.2002 11:59   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "shinsyotta": Remember, no matter what kinda training you do, it's still just a game, it's an abstraction of a fight and nothing more. The roda is the same thing, it's just a game that's supposed to teach about relationships, fighting being one possible way to interact with people. Let's ignore the awareness thing for a minute. What you want in solid self defense training is a small number of quick damanging strikes that immediately disable your target. You're gotta understand these few moves very well and be able to apply them widely. This is what geoff seems to be saying and i totally agree. Now look at the cabecada, in many schools, students are trained to enter versus a wide array of attacks, including hand strikes. They'll trap the hands, remove any guard, and deliver this to the face. It certainly does not need to be used as a counter attack. This is a simple move can be done very quickly, and with more than enough power to put somebody down. It's an example of exactly the kind of stuff the 'self defense' people talk about. If you understand this move and how to enter with it, you've got some fire to play with. And why does everyone ignore the concealed blades aspect? I've said this before, capoeira used to be a really brutal street fighting art. Yeah, it had the pretty aus and stuff, but it also taught people how to survive. That old stuff is still there, It's not just dancing. And i actually think that while capoeira is a lot more than fighting, understanding it as a complete self-defense system really compliments the art well. So that's the best case I can make typing it out here. I'll be quiet now, after I try to clear a few things up. "It's great that you don't fight because you are a balanced person who practices Angola " - Heh.. i only said i practice angola man! I didn't say i was the balanced pacifist zen master. "And of course this self defense art is Capoeira Angola, as taught by Contra Mestre Perere." - Yes, the art is capoeira angola, and maybe other styles too, i dont' know, i haven't trained them. However there's nothing unique about my teacher in this respect. There are others teaching this stuff. "To slow, to soft, no way to get used to getting hit in the training" - classic capoeira angola misconception. Self defense aside, all three points here are incorrect of capoeira angola.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.26.2002 12:57   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": What you said about cabecada is completely correct, and aside from the aftermath of using a blade in self defence I agree that this is probably the best form of self defence. However, I hope you agree that while capoeira does have some of the elements of live combat, it is nonetheless quite far removed from the real thing. While some people may be able to use the cabecada properly in self defence, it may not come so naturally to others and since it is not explicitly taught in most schools of capoeira, some people will miss out on its application in self defence. I have never been shown how to conceal a blade or draw one in my time in capoeira. Perhaps one day I will, but I would imagine that most people have not. Capoeira does not teach you to deal with the fear of a real confrontation either. I dare say that in its original, dangerous environment, it would not need to teach this. Most people who played street capoeira could probably fight and defend themselves anyway without capoeira. Most of us, however, are Westerners who aren't used to fighting a real opponent.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.26.2002 13:15   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": What you said about cabecada is completely correct, and aside from the aftermath of using a blade in self defence I agree that this is probably the best form of self defence. However, I hope you agree that while capoeira does have some of the elements of live combat, it is nonetheless quite far removed from the real thing. While some people may be able to use the cabecada properly in self defence, it may not come so naturally to others and since it is not explicitly taught in most schools of capoeira, some people will miss out on its application in self defence. I have never been shown how to conceal a blade or draw one in my time in capoeira. Perhaps one day I will, but I would imagine that most people have not. Capoeira does not teach you to deal with the fear of a real confrontation either. I dare say that in its original, dangerous environment, it would not need to teach this. Most people who played street capoeira could probably fight and defend themselves anyway without capoeira. Most of us, however, are Westerners who aren't used to fighting a real opponent.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.26.2002 13:17   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": By the way, I agree that people have misconceptions about Angola. You can play Angola fast and hard as well.
Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

07.26.2002 13:48   Quote
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" I have never been shown how to conceal a blade or draw one in my time in capoeira. Perhaps one day I will, but I would imagine that most people have not." If you want to learn that kind of stuff, I would suggest asking a Mestre, but I doubt that they will show you unlees you are a high ranking student and one of their most trusted students...just a thought.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.26.2002 13:54   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Espantalho1": Well I don't really think it's particularly hard to guess. There are lots of very obvious ways to conceal a blade and it's pretty obvious how to use one too: stab... a lot. Please don't let anyone bring up the idea of a skilful and beautiful knife fight! My point is that I've never been shown how to use a knife in capoeira class. Have you, Espantalho? By the way, Tarantula, do you carry a concealed knife?
Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

07.26.2002 14:20   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "shinsyotta": "There are lots of very obvious ways to conceal a blade" - Can you give some examples please? "My point is that I've never been shown how to use a knife in capoeira class. Have you, Espantalho?" - Not in capoeira class.
michael
michael

posts: 13

07.26.2002 14:51   Quote
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interesting conversation ensuing here. I know some S.E. Asian Arts such as Pentjak Silat, Kali,Arnis, assume that a blade is involved in all combative situations, if you get a chance check out the newspapers from Djakarta Indonesia, Knives Swords are used almost every day in the capital and on the outer islands spears, bows and arrows as well as swords are used in raids against immigrants to the Celebes and Kalimantan. Lets see a ginga and Martelos and Meia luas against a mass atack of a dozen armed men on a slippery muddy bloody arena trying to protect your extended family after waking up inthe middle of the night with your house on fire, these are occurances are quite common in this part of the world. Not to mention the existence of faction fighting in South Africa wher automatic weapons , spears and sagilas( fighting sticks with a knob on the end)are used dduring weekend nightime raids. Second there seems to be more material coming out about mediterranean and North African knife fighting and it can be in practice quite beutiful, the two knife fights I have been in weren't too beautiful but kind of comical and quite bloody. I am leaiving for the Amazon Sunday and if i get robbed i wil not ginga or throw au batidos I will pull my knife out and rush the guys slashing and stabbing everything in front of me and keep on running until I get to my place. Capoeira is great but it don't help me fight.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.26.2002 15:21   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Espantalho1": Certainly. Put the blade in "stabbing" (blade down) position. Now wrap your fingers around it so that your hand looks natural and hide the blade behind your forearm. now offer to shake someones hand and when they take your hand, whip out the blade and stab them. You can hide a blade all over your body, limited only by the size of the blade. I believe some people put razors in their mouths.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.26.2002 15:24   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "michael": I read a book about reality training by "you know who" and he said that one of his friends taught his students how to knife fight using plastic or rubber knives. They were spectacular, smooth and skilful. The instructor replaced the rubber with metal and the students became jerky, nervous and amateur.
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.26.2002 17:40   Quote
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ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "shinsyotta": Ok i lied, i'll post once more because i see some common ground coming, i'll be quoting shin here. "I hope you agree that while capoeira does have some of the elements of live combat, it is nonetheless quite far removed from the real thing....." Yes i do agree, but you have to differentiate between a game of capoeira and the art of capoeira. The game of capoeira (usually) isn't an all out murderous fight. I'm arguing that the art can be, and has been, a solid self defense system. And i also agree that most capoeira practitioners, especially in the states, don't think about self defense or capoeira in this manner. "I dare say that in its original, dangerous environment, it would not need to teach this..." This is a really good point. I am, however, surprised you don't think capoeira games go into dealing with fear, I know some DAMN scarey players. But yes, any system is going to be lacking somewhat in that it's not actually having you fight to the death. However, taught a certain way, I would say capoeira is the best i personally have seen. We haven't even begun to cover the benefits capoeira has that every other system i've seen seems to leaves out. "By the way, Tarantula, do you carry a concealed knife?" uhhhh... wha?? who me?? naw i'm just a little wuss. "The instructor replaced the rubber with metal..." My teacher also studies classical japanese kenjuitsu and he has impressed upon me this exact point. Live bladed weapons are just different, can't be substituted.
Pirata
Pirata

posts: 55

07.27.2002 00:41   Quote
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Ok! Everybody in here seems to post on what Capoeira is. (Everybody has a different OPINION!!!) So are you all Mestres who have completely figured out all of Capoeira's secrets??? "Angola is too slow, soft blah blah blah", "Capoeira is a game blah blah blah", "Capoeira doen't help me in fights"! Jeeeeeeeee-Sussssss people!!!!!! Don't forget your place in Capoeira. Are you Mestres to say all this...? No? Tought so. A lot of what you guys say is right only in certain aspects. Don't forget what the Roda also represents: Life. You get, game, you get fight. You get beutiful, you get ugly. Happy, Sad. Joyfull, Angry. C'mon! you get the picture, you've all heard this said thousands of times. Don't forget! Remember the Capoeira stories told by your Mestres of Profesores. Read some books. You would then know that Capoeira is as deadly of a martial art as it is a gracefull dance. It's all these things mixed up alltogether. Not one seperate from the other. Some people complain when a game is too playfull or has to much floreios. Well it's part of the beauty of it. (PART as in floreios aren't the only aspect that embelishes the art.) Then some people cry when the game is too rough. "Ohh that's not Capoeira". Capoeira is rough and soft. A game can be friendly. Did the slaves want to kill EACHOTHER ALL THE TIME! They also celebrated. Why would you have samba de roda. (Ohh yes of course. I doo this all the time. To celebrate someones deat after the roda.) I please hope you smell the sarcasm in this previous sentence!!! Capoeira can be rough. What was the goal... FIGHT BACK OPRESSION! Slave masters, police etc. Do I need to get graphic here. You know (can imagine) how rough and barbaric fights would be back then. Then it also got used in street fights and evolved that way with that in mind. Ohh and then there is malicia, mandinga and malandragem. See where this is going. No Capoeira is not perfect or the ultimate martial art. I always beleived that the fighter, (player), is the skilled or ultimate one. The art doesnt make you or represent you. You make it and represent it. (sometimes and cases good, and others bad). I'm no Mestre myself. Just a diciple (student) of Capoeira. And if you limit yourself to one or some aspect(s) of Capoeira and not the WHOLE thing. You have NO idea what you're missing. Knowlege is power. And if you don't know, then I guess you're in a pretty bad position to speak. So if you don't know the knowlege is power that you are missing, How can you judge the art like that????? Go with the obvious basics and dont go over your own knowlege or understanding. In time you will gather the "Agua de beber". Just like me who needs to spend much more time in Capoeira to gather more strengh, knowlege and wisedom. Open your eyes, Open your hearts, and Open you minds. Then your soul will feel Capoeira. Salve! e Muito Axe! Camaras... Pirata.
Pirata
Pirata

posts: 55

07.27.2002 00:59   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Forgot to add this in: In a brawl would you see a capoeirista ginga or au batido. I answer this by: In a brawl would you see a Karateka perform Katas or or "KI-AAHH" after every punch? THINK instead of blabin'... "Capoeira is this, no its that..." I'm not perfect either, I'm just trying to share this with all of you. Why do Capoeiras from outside of Brasil be this way. Do you see all other Martial Arts school act this way. Ohh this is a stupid move, ohh this is blah blah blah... Only in America! Then again A lot of Martial Arts schools are based on combat only. Become Americanized and loose all their cultural, historical and mystical values. Maybe this is what is starting to happen to Capoeira. Right under our noses and we can't even see it cause instead of focussing on the teachings and respectfully follow the traditions, we focus on: "Ohh Capoeira is this..., fofoquera..." I'm puting a copy of this as it's own thread in the forum. "Everybody should take a peek at this" Chau.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.27.2002 09:53   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Pirata": You say what you said about kata because you have no idea what it is. I'm not going to bore you with the details.
Pirata
Pirata

posts: 55

07.27.2002 12:35   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "shinsyotta": I do know what a Kata is. My point on using this for an argument was more one the choreography emphasis. How many Karatekas do you know start reheasing their katas in a fight. Like a choreography. That was the point. I wasn't saying that they are useless. I know what they are and what they are used for. Shit gime a break here. Misunderstood point. No that it is said "That" way. what do you think?
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

07.27.2002 15:30   Quote
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Shins is right dude. Kata are sequences designed to teach how to fight... anyway... I would just like to point out that ginga and au batido are both useful in a fight... assuming you train to use them in a fight. You average "Hey I play regional that makes me a stealth ghetto ninja warrior" or "I play angola the slower lower "healing" art that is capoeira and by the way I am a hippy" would get the CRAP KICKED OUT OF THEM. If you want to fight with capoeira you have to train to fight with capoeira. This is not to say that I do not play beautiful jogos of regional or angola... but I also work to be fast and deadly outside of the jogo wih my capoeira. BTW Shins... even if your sun shines out of Geoff T's ass... I have decided that you are my kind of asshole... Muito axe camara
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 15:47   Quote
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geez i consider the au batido to be to dangerous to throw inside the roda, let alone outside. don't you worry about getting dropped on your head? maybe you should be!
Veneno
Veneno

posts: 2

07.27.2002 16:11   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "capoeiragoodboy": I've spoken with one of CM Perere's students from the Portland, Oregon school, where one of Perere's students teaches. He mentioned something to me about people talking shit from Brazil about Capoeira Angola Palmares, which seems to point right in your direction. Apparently there are rumors going around regarding Mestre No's teaching and the teaching of his Mestres and Contra Mestres. Unless you know something I don't about Angola Palmares, they teach more than "dance" as you so aptly put it. They teach fighting concepts and also teach fighting techniques with the straight razor, much like the Cariocas of Rio used to use for street fighting. Again, this comes from an Angola Palmares student, which is more than credible as a source of information. Every lineage of Capoeira Mestres has a different interpretation of Capoeira, and how it is taught. You're extremely quick to point the finger and accuse one group of not teaching practical self defense using Capoeira. I noticed you also don't have a profile listed, which leads me to believe you're trolling this thread with your lame ass post. Let's find out how long you've trained, who your Mestre is, and if your school teaches practical self defense using Capoeira techniques. My profile is listed, and you're more than welcome to read it if you have any doubts as to my lineage in Capoeira and training background. Bigorna
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.27.2002 16:23   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Coice": Shinnyshotto is my kind of asshole to. It is the TRUE assholes like Punk Pirata and Itsy Bitsy Tarantula that kill me with their pseudo philoshophical, condesending posts. Punk Pirata, most Brazilian teachers in the United States AND Brazil don't know nothing deeper than what is found on the internet. They are more interestested in making money than anything else. Itsy Bitsy will agree with me there cause his teacher has indoctrinated him with the same idea. To try and stifle conversation by saying that we don't know enough, because we aren't mestres is crazy. Writing the longest post on this thread to to tell us about how we need to shut up is ironic. Tiny Tarantula, I will crush you beneath my combat boots, then spit my gem star disposable and dissect you from head to toe. Capoeira Angola is a dancing man's art. I love it. Try to use it in a fight and you shall receive a buck fifty from my ox. Please stay silent as you promised, or go up the spout again! Love Ya.
Veneno
Veneno

posts: 2

07.27.2002 16:30   Quote
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One thing I forgot to add to this thread is the fact that people have to learn how to differentiate between Capoeira the "art" and Capoeira the "luta" or "fight." People who do not train in Capoeira have misconceptions about it as a fighting style, because they've seen Only The Strong, or have seen demonstrations where the intent is to play a game, not fight. But to see Capoeira effectively used in a street fight is something completely different. I'm not talking about World Vale Tudo Championships with Mestre Hulk or Mixed Fights in Russia with Mestre King, but I'm talking about actual street fighting techniques where a Capoeira uses malicia. If you read Nestor Capoeira's excerpt on Planetcapoeira, you'll see where he talks about the difference between playing Capoeira in an academy, as opposed to its use on the street. One student may win the jogo de Capoeira in the school against another student, however, when the winning student leaves the school after class and gets his throat ripped open by a razor, used by the student who lost in class, tell me, who really won? Who used Malicia to their advantage? Maybe the student won in class, but he lost his life in the street.
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.27.2002 16:35   Quote
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ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Veneno": - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "capoeiragoodboy": First off, I'm not from Brazil. Second, I don't care what your lineage is so I won't be reading your profile. Thirdly, I am not dissing Mestre No by saying you can't use today's Capoeira Angola in a fight. I know you are into UFC and all this combat stuff. I'm not. So I don't feel I'm insulting Capoeira Angola by saying it won't help you fight anymore than Basketball. Why are grown ass men so concerned with proving, on the iternet or anywhere, who has the best fight skills. I think Capoeira Angola is the best because it is for dancing men, singing men, living men. Ya'll are too death obssesed. I'll stop now, I'm starting to sound like Punk Pirata. P.S. I'll tell you my lineage, my time, and show you my skills at practical self defence when I visit you in Orange County baby doll. Love you!
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

07.27.2002 16:52   Quote
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Au batido works as an INCREDIBLe punch counter. I don't worry about beinf dropped on my head because noone EVER expects you to try and use an au batido in a fight...or in a hard contact roda for that matter. All of them think it is too risky. The au batido is still a part of capoeira because it is useful if you know how. Just like anything else you learn. A simple au can knock a man out... au batido just takes that power and further focuses it.
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

07.27.2002 17:02   Quote
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And as far as talking trash about mestres goes... I have no dislike of any mestre of their students. All of the real mestres, professors and such that I have met have been dynamic people. The ones that aren;t don;t desrve the title. Capoeira starts as a physical thing. Then becomes a mental thing. The last stage is spirtual. If it is not spiritual to your mestre, then he is not a mestre. If you mestre does not belive that capoeira is a battle tested art of combat, then he is not really a mestre. If your mestre thinks that dance is the only thing in capoeira, then he is not a mestre. Capoeira is perhaps the most beautiful amalgamation of physical mental social and spirtual aspects that I have ever come across and it is a gorgeuos thing to me. I will be the first tp tell you that I am not a mestre. Not for any of the above reasons, but because I have not yet spent enough time on this earth to gather the wisdom I will need to be a mestre. Some down me because I found the beauty of capoeira without a mestre to guide me. Yet all the mestres who have met me swear that I must have learned under a great and wise one of their number. Others down me because I lead a grupo of dedicated capoeiristas and dare to give each and everyone of them that title. And yet all of them deserve it and they each impress mestres just as I do. I am not tooting my own horn or anything. I am simply saying that the mestre is not the impotant thing. It is the capoeirista that counts. In brazil some of the best capoeiristas learn on the streets with none they call mestre. And yest their voices sing sweetest, they play berimbau longest, and their jogos are the most intricate. Capoeira is like the rarest of flowers and it will only bloom for you if you truly love it.
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.27.2002 17:09   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Veneno": The student that killed him is a psycho that needs to learn to control his temper. You sound like you are glorifying negativity, and death. Who won? I would say the devil. One man dead, another in Jail. That story ain't cool and is about murder, not capoeira or even combat.
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.27.2002 17:14   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Veneno": Sweetheart, I changed my mind and decided to read your profile. It turns out you don't have one either, you big mystery man you! Does this mean you are trolling? Write back soon baby, I can't wait to hear all about your lineage, your school and all that! Love, The Goodboy
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

07.27.2002 17:18   Quote
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(I have to throw gas on this one) The student that killed him never went to jail. He is a capoeirista in Brazil. They are magical creatures you know? He dissappeared for a month and then returned to his academia to play again. As he reputation grew fiercer so to did he. After each telling he became more and more deadly. Killing 2 the 5 then 10 perilous capoeiristas all armed with straight razors and he with just his abadas and a smile. Time passed and he could walk ANY street in the dead of night without fear. Great warrior capoeiristas from everywhere came to challenge him and the feared him, but they had to make a name for themselves. One day he was walking out of his own academia and heard a small sound behind him. Trusting that he had corpo fechado and he had nothing to fear (For he believed his own legends) he turned to find a young boy holding a razor. He smiled once, and then a new smile appeared and he died... And a young boy became the greatest capoeirista around all for killing the unkillable, known for his skills as a mandingero and favored of the orixas... and the cycle continues.
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.27.2002 17:21   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Coice": You better stop teasing me!
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.27.2002 17:30   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "capoeiragoodboy": Thanks gentlemen... you are my kind of assholes as well. CGB, I liked the spider-crushing bit!
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 17:32   Quote
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ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "capoeiragoodboy": - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Does this mean you are trolling? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Actually, no. It doesn't. I found a quick definition on the net: regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, It's pretty clear to me who's trolling.
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 17:42   Quote
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and cgb, if there's some specific reason why you seem to have such a problem with me, why don't you hop into chat here and lemme know. I'd really rather have not disrupted this otherwise good discussion.
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.27.2002 17:51   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Tarantula": Damn, the teacher hates to get razzed. Beleive me I am learning alot on this thread. Part of my "psychological" studies to aid me in self defence. Shnnyshotto likes me, so I must have some redeeming quality. I admit I am a rather low life form, but if you keep teaching I'll evolve. Seriously: Get off your own ****. I was joking about the trolling. However, I still think that Capoeira Angola is not trained in a way to help in a fight. And don't sleep, I've seen quite a bit of Capoeira Angola, including Palmares. By the way, why do the Palmares groups in most places wear cords, while the group in Seattle doesn't? What is the rational for a Capoeira Angola group, Palmares, wearing cords anyway? I thought this was an anti-malcia, pro regional thing. Teach my brother, teach. Sincerely, LittleBillygoatgruff
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 18:40   Quote
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actually it's bookeeping. we do use the cords, and they are just there for academy bookeeping
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 19:19   Quote
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actually it's bookeeping. we do use the cords, and they are just there for academy bookeeping
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 19:26   Quote
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and lastly... coice... you're a lunatic. Allow me to present my evidence: 1) that last post. 2) you're fighting with batido.. really.. not the act of a sane man.
Pirata
Pirata

posts: 55

07.27.2002 19:28   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "capoeiragoodboy": Ok so now we resort to name calling... How childish. I was actually wondering if I had said something wrong or came on the wrong way. But seeing your behaviour now. Shit, Maybe I was on the money. 1 question for you. I'm no Angoleiro but how can you say Angola is just for dancing. Maybe some schools get really watered down yes, but not all. I don't think the slaves back then used Angola, the first form of capoeira, just to dance around. Everybody knows the story. I don't need to go into it. And what is it exaclty that I said that ticked you off so much. Did I disrespect you? If so tell me how. You seem pretty hot headed. You should cool off. A mestre once told me: Capoeira se jogo com os peis quente, e a cabeca fria. Anyways, if the hat fits wear it. If it don't it doesn't regard you. A great man once said: Don't argue with fools cause from a distance people can't tell who is who. If you have something to say in an inteligent and respectfull maner, Hit reply if not. Conversation has ended. Pirata.
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

07.27.2002 20:01   Quote
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So I am a lunatic if I am creative in my way of expounding on a story thread? Or better yet if I am phsically capable of defending myself while I happen to be balanced on one hand? You are obviously not a capoeirista or trying to become one, so you are obviously no longer worth the time of anyone on this forum... Go learn grenock (private joke for those who are in the know) or something and leave us alone.
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 20:09   Quote
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woah, hey i was just kidding buddy, don't string me up or anything.
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

07.27.2002 20:20   Quote
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That's what I thought... lol
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 20:24   Quote
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but that doesn't mean you're not a lunatic. hey since this thread is already out of control, lemme ask you a question.. if you've already got some people out there, why not get a mestre? i'm sure you could arrange to have one come take over your group.
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

07.27.2002 20:42   Quote
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First and foremost, we pride ourselves on being rua capoeiristas. It means that we don;t have someone who may or may not have ever tried it saying that an au batido will get you killed in a fight or somesuch. Secondly, we are in driving distance of 3 mestres and go and visit them on occasion and funnily enough...none have suggested that we do anything differently. It seems to be the general idea that I am both gifted and skilled at imparting capoeira upon the members of my grupo. And lunatic or not. I could still beat the crap out of you and at least 3 like you. lol. And if I personally can;t, me and machina can.
Tarantula
Tarantula

posts: 253

07.27.2002 21:02   Quote
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heh, well i'm surprised it's worked out that well for you, cause i'd be screwed without my mestre. Now I'm curious to see what you guys got, maybe we'll run into each other some day.
michael
michael

posts: 13

07.28.2002 02:29   Quote
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I find these conversations very interesting, I am off to Brasil tomorrow off to the Caxiuana Extractive Reserve 400 km S.W. of Belen. Anbody here read Don Draeger's work. he studied Japanese martial arts in post war Japan, mostly focusing on the old samurai arts. He once said that the modern Asian martial arts karate, Tae Kwon Do etc... were "Asses in lions skins: This what i think of Capoeira, the only difference Capoeira is alot more fun, the weather in brasil is better, the beaches are better and the music and food are pretty good also. And I noticed many of the capoeiristas don't take the tradition and hierachial nonsense too seriously
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.28.2002 21:55   Quote
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Pirata: "A great man once said: Don't argue with fools cause from a distance people can't tell who is who." Yep: Jay-Z You asked me to expand on the use of kata (personal message). Most people studying katas nowadays think that kata's are designed for fighting non-martial artists. The sequence consists of body shifts, unbalancing techniques, joint manipulations and strikes that quickly disable an attacker. They are not meant to be done in a sequence, as you implied in your post. They are meant to teach good body mechanics and must be tested in realistic training and sparring to work properly. I personally wouldn't use au batido in a fight, but if Coice can do it that's great. He seems to test his skills in realistic fashion, which is more than most people. In my opinion, CapoeiraGoodBoy is not trolling. Perhaps he's not just going to listen to people making statements without questioning them.
JusticeZero
JusticeZero

posts: 106

07.29.2002 11:14   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Veneno": >They teach fighting concepts and also teach fighting techniques with the straight razor, much like the Cariocas of Rio used to use for street fighting. Again, this comes from an Angola Palmares student, which is more than credible as a source of information. All i've really seen is the occasional form question answered with something like "Because you might have a razor there..". I haven't seen a straight razor exercise yet, personally. As far as people talking s!t.. yeah, I doubt there's a Capoeira teacher anywhere of any note who DOESN'T have people talking s!t about them. Let's face it, this art wasn't exactly created by honest, upstanding, noble goody-goody-two-shoes's.
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

07.29.2002 12:49   Quote
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Which is exactly why we all love it so much.
capoeiragoodboy
capoeiragoodboy

posts: 2136

07.29.2002 13:37   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Pirata": Pirata. Do you baby. I'll do me. Reply or not Sugar, I'll keep it coming the way I want.
Pirata
Pirata

posts: 55

07.29.2002 18:27   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "shinsyotta": That's right. The Roc Baby!!! ;) Thanks for your input. Maybe katas vary from school to school, or from style to style then. I've done TKD before and the katas were more of a set of moves in a certain order than what you described. I don't really know what to say about this one. I was talking about the ones I had done you were talking about the ones you knew about. So I guess it's missunderstanding then. Understandable. Did you understand what I meant with the correction? Axe. Pirata
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.29.2002 23:12   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Pirata": What you did was the same as kata. They are not taught properly in most places, and most people understand them exactly as you said. Yep, understandable misunderstanding.
Pirata
Pirata

posts: 55

07.31.2002 00:07   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "shinsyotta": I tought so, from what you were saying it seemd as there was much more to it. I used to do TKD, and I left the school because a lot of what they were teaching didn't make sense to me. After understanding some combat techniques, dos and don'ts. Especially after doing Capoeira. It was to much of the "Olympic Style". You just can't help but feel that theres a big chunk of knolwge missing. I don't know if any of you have ever felt this. Most likely. For example, no teachings about the history or culture. And a kick like a Meia Lua Saulta, "Round house" back spin, is done by throwing your leg first and looking after. In Capoeira we all know that is a big NO NO. Look first, then kick. Just one example. And to think this kind of crap can happen to Capoeira. Well actually it is happening! Salve. Pirata. ps. I'd like to know what other styles have you done. If it's the case. Maybe it should be in the berimbau cafe or something...
Sinha
Sinha

posts: 65

07.31.2002 09:28   Quote
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Capoeira Full contact
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

07.31.2002 10:29   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Sinha": ???
Sinha
Sinha

posts: 65

08.01.2002 10:43   Quote
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yesss?
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

08.01.2002 12:49   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Sinha": You just said "capoeira full contact"- what about it? By the way, I think I know you. If you're who I think, you are very good at capoeira. Thanks for coming to the batizado.
Sinha
Sinha

posts: 65

08.01.2002 13:04   Quote
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hahahaha, your welcome, im not good by the way, im just learning, i have alot of respect for Pele, and im really Good friends with his son, Jair, by the way, what has jair been up too?, well what i ment by capoeira full contact is that there is not 1 capoeira group in the world that is not FULL CONTACT, example, if you dont esquiva, your going to get kicked, if you dont kick quickly and get out the way, your going to get droped or kicked, its a game that if you dont pay atention, wanting to or not, there is going to be contact. you get what i mean?
Peninha
Peninha

posts: 204

08.01.2002 15:02   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Pirata": I don't think you are being fair, tarnishing TKD because of your poor experience. Big difference between the TKD styles in WTF and ITF - in ITF we practice patterns just like Shinsyotts said - putting meaning with each move, understanding what you are doing and what to do with each action(offensive and defensive). As for not looking before you are kicking? What a joke!! This is a mispractice in any Martial Art. Basic combat techniques DEMAND that you look before kicking (or performing any attack). Still I'm glad you seem to have found a Capoeira club that is at least teaching you the basics of "combat" - sounds like you need them after the TKD club you had!!! Axé Piratinha!!
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

08.01.2002 16:36   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Peninha": Peninha, perhaps your club showed correct applications, but most taekwondo clubs don't show them. Techniques in kata are mostly taught as blocks (X-blocks, double handed blocks, etc.) when they would never work as blocks. Most clubs teach punching with the hands at the waist etc. I say this because that's what I was taught in Shotokan and I did some taekwondo as well and found the katas similar.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

08.01.2002 16:39   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Sinha": I understand what you mean Sinha. Nice to hear from you.
Pirata
Pirata

posts: 55

08.02.2002 11:36   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Peninha": Don't get me wrong. I'm not tarnishing TKD. I still have much respect for that art. I was "ONLY" talking about the school "I" had been in. Not generalizing all the schools, eventough a lot of them "ARE" like that, or TKD in general. I'm convinced that if we go to Korea, TKD will be much different from what we know it to be here. Example some Capoeira outside Brazil, and then going to Brazil for the first time and seeing how Capoeira is played "THERE"! You know what I mean. The clean cut Olympic style TKD, from what I have learned in the school "I" have been in, is really watered down. I mean really. I'm sure in Korea there are a lot more different applications and ways to do things than here. I'm sure there are still a few good schools here and there. Salve.
Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

08.02.2002 13:34   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Pirata": I think there's a problem with doing any martial art in a tournament type of point scoring style. It changes the objective of the art which changes the art itself.
marciano
marciano

posts: 650

08.02.2002 14:59   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Espantalho1": How about boxing, or judo?
Espantalho1
Espantalho1

posts: 2684

08.02.2002 17:58   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "marciano": There's definitely a problem with them as a fighting style. They're a sport. Take boxing for example, it is a sport where the object is to knock someone out. The object is not to disable or kill. Plus the boxers get used to having gloves on their hands when they fight. This is another disadvantage, because gloves can absorb a lot of the impact when blocking a punch. When a boxer can't "hide" behind their gloves, they are a lot more vulnerable.
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

08.02.2002 20:10   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "marciano": Marciano, it's been soooo long since I've mentioned Geoff Thompson, but go to www.geoffthompson.com and check out the guest writers section. Iain Abernethy has written a nice article about "old style" boxing. You'll see there that even boxing has changed dramatically to work as a sport. Everyone knows judo is jujitsu without strikes. It's true that both these arts have not been watered down so much as specialised. For example, old style boxing was a complete art with moderate punching skills. Now it is specialised as a punching art, but it is amazing in that realm. Few can beat judo as a grappling art, but as a fighting art, jujitsu covered all territory from punching and weapon fighting and kicking to grappling.
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

08.03.2002 14:21   Quote
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I am proud of you shins... not once in that last post did I get a mental image of a large golden ray of sun shine popping out of Geoff's ass. lol
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

08.03.2002 16:30   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Coice": I should start a fan club.
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

08.04.2002 13:56   Quote
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Yep... but somewhere else. LOL
Machina
Machina

posts: 15

08.04.2002 18:24   Quote
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Hello Hello Everyone, this is my first post. As one of Coice's students, i can vouch for pretty much everything he says, i personally have seen him perform an au batido(and hit) in a fighting situation, he's not lying.
Manganga
Manganga

posts: 217

08.05.2002 00:59   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Machina": Well.... The guy Coice hit with an au batido must be a complete idiot. It is cool that it worked, but I suggest not using it on just anyone. ~Manganga
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

08.05.2002 01:47   Quote
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MACHINA!!!! Dude I never thought you would get on here!!!! WORD!!!!
Mabato
Mabato

posts: 118

08.05.2002 03:12   Quote
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Bru. Capoeira is definately full contact. 2 weeks ago 2 of the one guy broke another one's jaw with a meia lua de compasso. in my books probably the most dangerous kick in capoeira. my avice nstudy capoeira. you are a freaking deadly weapon when you get stuff right.
Peninha
Peninha

posts: 204

08.05.2002 12:42   Quote
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ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Pirata": - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I'm convinced that if we go to Korea, TKD will be much different from what we know it to be here. Example some Capoeira outside Brazil, and then going to Brazil for the first time and seeing how Capoeira is played "THERE"! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I agree with you totally on this! Um Abraço camará!
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

08.05.2002 14:12   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Peninha": I think the most effective martial arts can be found in the West. The most effective martial artist is a different story.
sampler
sampler

posts: 17

08.05.2002 16:19   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
i think all martial arts are very effective, but some people make a certian martial arts "look" effective(jean claude van dam - kickboxing, jackie chan - tkd and so on.
Coice
Coice

posts: 520

08.05.2002 17:56   Quote
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Van Damme looks effective??? LOL
Machina
Machina

posts: 15

08.05.2002 20:24   Quote
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van damme might have "looked" effective in the 80's before the general populas knew what martial arts were, van damme looked impressive the way the karate kid looked impressive, only damme was a lot bigger... ahh, b rated martial arts movies, gotta love em.
Bigorna
Bigorna

posts: 448

08.05.2002 21:52   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
On the lines of TKD, my wife fought full contact for a very long time and retired as North Carolina State Champion. She mentioned that Brazil actually has a very formidable team and they usually place pretty high as far as international competition is concerned. I know this is a Capoeira forum, but it seems like a bit of clarification is needed on TKD (Tae Kwon Do) for those not familiar with the style. The thing that most people aren't aware of are the many different organizations of TKD, some of which embrace only point sparring, while others embrace full contact. Those of you who have posted that you trained in TKD should know the difference. American TKD Assocation, founded by Jhoon Rhee, is completely point fighting, with absolutely no contact allowed. They teach a myriad of forms, from what my wife said about 120 forms, that absolutely do nothing for the student. The way they teach martial arts gives a student a false sense of security where realistic self defense techniques are applied. Most people confuse ATA with all of the TKD schools, which is incorrect. One thing ATA is, however, is a money machine. THey are so large, they've set up their own bank in Arkansas if I'm not mistaken, and give instructors money to set up schools until they are financially independent. Jhoon Rhee is a very, very rich man, but it's sad that his style is not realistic. WTF is the most recognized organization of full contact TKD, headquartered in Seoul, S. Korea at the Kukkiwon. THere are other TKD organizations such as ITF, USTA, USTF, etc. Each is founded by different masters, with variations in their teaching curriculum. I have seen tapes of workouts the Kukkiwon students do, and they are intense. I have seen video of the International tournaments held at the Kukkiwon, and the way these students fight are nothing like here in America. You think Brazilian people are bad about complaining that Americans don't train Capoeira as hard as they do in Brazil, well it's the same for the Koreans. Koreans pure and simple, love blood. They love to see broken bones and knockouts, the whole enchilada. One of my wife's students whip kicked a guy so hard that he dropped the guy's jaw out of the socket. How she was taught, was to go all out in a fight, because it's either you or the other person. In their Poomse and Korio (sp?) forms, they were simulating what you would do in a fight, as opposed to ATA's forms which are simply forms, nothing else. Another thing about her school, was that they were open minded to learning other styles, such as escrima, kickboxing, jiu jitsu, or anything that would give them a realistic edge in self protection and preservation. They had even seen a documentary on Capoeira and were interested in the art, but because of their remote location, there were no Capoeira schools in the area to cross train with. Again, similar to Capoeira and the lineage of different Mestres and groups that exist, it's similar to TKD in that different Masters are taught different ways of passing knowledge to their students. Bigorna
Sinha
Sinha

posts: 65

08.06.2002 00:08   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Manganga": not really man, i have done it too, you just got to have "talent" for thinhs like this, for people who KNOWS their stuff, au batido is not a floreio, its AU BATIDO, not AU BONITO, ok, BATIDO, BATER, HIT, HAVE YOU JOINED ME YET..? excuse me if I seem rude, but im just short and straight to the point -sinha-
parafusa
parafusa

posts: 285

08.06.2002 14:44   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Sinha: I totally agree with you...but I also wanted to mention that in a real fight, the other person doesn't know what to expect, especially if he sees the other guy with his hand on the floor and kinda being in a upside down position...it doesn't really give him enough time to react to hit the other person...it's very powerful, yet it's graceful at the same time...just one of those capoeira moves u gotta love!! it is a VERY dangerous kick, both for the person that is using it the person it is being used on...I understand where Manganga is comming from, because if you do not execute an AU BATIDO properly, you'll make a complete fool out of yourself and you will basically have given up the fight by putting yourself in that position (ex. if you fall down)...but if you have the skills (and the balls) to pull it off, it's one of the best moves you can do... in my opinion, if someone thinks that it isn't effective, it is simply because they are not skilled enough to use it in a real-life situation yet...
Sinha
Sinha

posts: 65

08.06.2002 16:44   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "parafusa": I TOTALLY AGREE, I SHOULD OF BEEN BORN A BOY, BECAUSE I GOT BALLS, AND LOTS OF IT..LOL
Manganga
Manganga

posts: 217

08.08.2002 01:22   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Sinha, Parafuse": Actually, I still dont agree with that move being used in a fight cause its always that chance the person knows what they are doing. Thats why you only do it on complete idiots and you have to know they are a complete idiot first. Parafusa if you are trying to imply that Im not skilled to use it in a fight you are right cause that move stinks in real life situations, unless you are dealing with an complete idiot. I got other moves to fu*k cats up with more effectively than au batido. I can perform au batido with my eyes closed, only on my left hand though (I'm not perfect). My mestre has showed me a few nasty counters to that move that makes me not want to do it any where, unless Im dealing with a complete idiot. Feel free to use it when ever you kids want to, just dont use it on me, cause Im not a complete idiot. ~Manganga
Manganga
Manganga

posts: 217

08.08.2002 01:25   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Manganga": Plus, if I am dealing with a complete idiot I still wont use it, I'll just punch his lights out. ~Manganga
Flame
Flame

posts: 293

08.08.2002 02:01   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
the fact is that this is a move...it CAN do damage...if you can do it the way it is supposed to be done then fine..if you cant then I suggest you dont even try to use it in a real life situation...I wouldnt
jakub
jakub

posts: 18

08.08.2002 02:32   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
in what distance you want to use au batido? In my opinion putting your head down, close to the opponent's legs without any protection is not so smart idea. but I think everyone has a right to do what he likes to do. (if I remeber correctly mestre hulk tried to do some up side down movement in one vale tudo match and was knocked out)
shinsyotta
shinsyotta

posts: 755

08.08.2002 11:56   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Flame": Just remember that putting your head by someones feet brings you closer to being stomped on.
marciano
marciano

posts: 650

08.08.2002 12:07   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "shinsyotta": At least they can't punch you!
parafusa
parafusa

posts: 285

08.08.2002 15:49   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Manganga: I never said you were an idiot...and I never judge someone else's game...I don't care how long they've been practicing...that's the worst thing you can do to someone...i would never judge you by telling you if you're skilled enough or not to pull something off...that's not my job...i just don't think that you should say that the move stinks, because like many people have said, if it is done properly, it is very effective...i can't change your mind, but i seriously don't think that you should be so narrow-minded when it comes to this...
Sinha
Sinha

posts: 65

08.08.2002 19:09   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Look manganga, im sorry, but in capoeira THREE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE, im not going to write anything else cause im really pissed off, ill talk to you privetly, cause you my dawg..
marciano
marciano

posts: 650

08.09.2002 04:48   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Sinha": You always sound pissed off!
Sinha
Sinha

posts: 65

08.09.2002 08:28   Quote
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REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "marciano": Hahahaha, thats how i am, But im nice :) i just get tooo involved..
marciano
marciano

posts: 650

08.09.2002 09:09   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
REPLY TO ORIGINAL MESSAGE POSTED BY "Sinha": lol!
montesco11
montesco11

posts: 25

02.09.2006 20:48   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
There is a mestre near me who is from, I'm told, one of the worst favelas there is. In the roda he is extremly agressive and his school is known for their sharp, effective technique and their malandragem. The guy's basically a hard ass and I'm thinking of investing some hard earned cash into a private lesson or two with him to learn some combat application capoeira. Has anybody done any intensive capoeira training for "real life situations" or have any input for me?


thanks, montesco
mistertwister
mistertwister

posts: 229

02.09.2006 21:07   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
This is probably a stupid question, but what is a favela?
montesco11
montesco11

posts: 25

02.09.2006 21:34   Quote
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favela is the worst part of town in an urban brazilian development....they are often built on hills with no plumbing or electricity, run by druglords...police usually have to plan 50 man plus incursions just for routine inspections....equating it to a ghetto or "hood" wouldnt do it. It's just really bad...and if you come outta there...you come out thick skinned....
Palma
Palma

posts: 141

02.09.2006 21:43   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
@Mistertwister:

Try to find the movie "Cidade de Deus" ("City of God"), Brazil, 2002. You shall see...
nenn
nenn

posts: 176

02.09.2006 22:41   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Palma im getting the movie now, i hope its awesome :)

edit: just wondering, is there any capoeira in this movie? :-D
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Thu Feb 09 2006, 23:53 ]</span>
Vulpes
Vulpes

posts: 28

02.09.2006 23:24   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
not that i recall... but there is a little bit of soccer, and they do chase a chicken :)
TheTick
TheTick

posts: 1800

02.10.2006 04:54   Quote
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montesco11: What's the mestres name? In LA?

MisterTwister: yeah, "Cidade de Deus" i.e. City of God is an awesome movie..
Ivana
Ivana

posts: 3

02.10.2006 06:50   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Awesome mowie!?
It's about bunch of kids killing each other with guns!
It's interesting, but too long
Palma
Palma

posts: 141

02.10.2006 07:43   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
[quote=Ivana]Awesome mowie!?
It's about bunch of kids killing each other with guns!
It's interesting, but too long[/quote]

Wooohooo, somebody from my club ;)
Sta ima?

Sorry I'm offtopic :D
Manhoso113
Manhoso113

posts: 3693

02.10.2006 08:26   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
[quote=Ivana]Awesome mowie!?
It's about bunch of kids killing each other with guns!
It's interesting, but too long[/quote]

if you see it like that, then dont bother with these movies:

platoon- bunch of kids killing each other with guns
star wars- bunch of clones killing each other with guns
goodfellas- bunch of italians killing each other with guns
conan- bunch of barbarians killing each other with swords
x-men- bunch of filthy mutants killing each other with powers
cheech and chong up in smoke- bunch of kids killing each other with reefer cigarettes
8)
angelcapoeira
angelcapoeira

posts: 700

02.10.2006 08:37   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
[quote=mistertwister]This is probably a stupid question, but what is a favela?[/quote]

Not a stupid question at all, the word favela could be translated as slum or barrio, but before anyone gets excited not all barrios are slums 'cause the word barrio could also be used in a diferent context to mean simply neighborhood.

Anyone want to add something or correct me feel free 'cause by the way I've never been to Brazil...

Hope this info helps...

TheTick
TheTick

posts: 1800

02.10.2006 09:23   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
[quote=Ivana]Awesome mowie!?
It's about bunch of kids killing each other with guns!
It's interesting, but too long[/quote]

Then I guess you don't follow politics either people killing people with guns over oil, cartoons, religion and whatever is the drug du jour.

Awesome movie. I said it, and stand by it. And you better believe that's what goes on in the favelas, you know where capoeira came from, an it's only wors there these days.
angelcapoeira
angelcapoeira

posts: 700

02.10.2006 09:45   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Hey Montesco, where is this? got any more info on the mestre or the group?

I enjoyed Cidade de Deus, I thought it was beautiful in a sad, melancholy kind of way, but you'll only like it if you like this type of movie...

The Godfather - a bunch of men killing eachother with guns.
Saving Private Ryan - a bunch of men killing each other with tanks and machine guns.
The Wizard of Oz... oh wait, not that one...
Lawrence2002
Lawrence2002

posts: 1

02.10.2006 10:26   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Enter the Dragon- a bunch of men killing each other with kicks
Only the Strong- a bunch of bad actors killing my love for capoeira
Brokeback Mountain- a bunch of cowboys killing my appettite
ShadowCat17
ShadowCat17

posts: 1703

02.10.2006 11:32   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
[quote=angelcapoeira]Not a stupid question at all, the word favela could be translated as slum or barrio, but before anyone gets excited not all barrios are slums 'cause the word barrio could also be used in a diferent context to mean simply neighborhood.

Anyone want to add something or correct me feel free 'cause by the way I've never been to Brazil...
[/quote]

Mostly right, but just a detail - "bairro" IS the generic word for "neighborhood" in Brazil, with no negative connotation. There is a similar word in Spanish that means "slum," but bairro is Portuguese for neighborhood, regardless of the context.

Raposa
russpowell
russpowell

posts: 281

02.10.2006 13:17   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
yep. bairro is neighborhood, while favela is more a mix of the hood, the projects, ghetto, central park at night and current new orleans or haiti. I lived in a favela for a while back in '95. it sucked.

before i joined this group and my new group, the only capoeira i knew about was regional/senzala based that was associated with the CBC and it's goal was tournament capoeira. I though anyone who didn't spar, didnt understand capoeira. But now i understand that you get out of capoeira what you put into it. and respect any who does capeoeira for what ever reason.
angelcapoeira
angelcapoeira

posts: 700

02.10.2006 14:00   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
[quote=ShadowCat17][quote=angelcapoeira]Not a stupid question at all, the word favela could be translated as slum or barrio, but before anyone gets excited not all barrios are slums 'cause the word barrio could also be used in a diferent context to mean simply neighborhood.

Anyone want to add something or correct me feel free 'cause by the way I've never been to Brazil...
[/quote]

Mostly right, but just a detail - "bairro" IS the generic word for "neighborhood" in Brazil, with no negative connotation. There is a similar word in Spanish that means "slum," but bairro is Portuguese for neighborhood, regardless of the context.

Raposa
[/quote]

Hi Raposa,

In spanish "barrio" literally means neighborhood, I just looked it up.

By the way I love your web page...

angelcapoeira
angelcapoeira

posts: 700

02.10.2006 14:14   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
So let me get this right, in portuguese favela means slum?

The Exorcist - a bunch of demons killing a little girl.
War of the Worlds - a buch of extraterstrials killing the human race.
jstntlvr
jstntlvr

posts: 10

02.10.2006 14:34   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
real exorcism - catholic church starving and torchering people to death because they have diagnosable and treatable psychological disorders
TheTick
TheTick

posts: 1800

02.10.2006 15:39   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Star Wars Epsisodes I-III: A bunch of CGI characters killing other CGI characters with laser guns

Star Wars VI: Yoda dies does he. Yes he does. Yeeeessss....

Citizen Kane: Tycoon dies alone in mansion. A sled.

The Wizard of Oz: Weird weather conditions using tornados to kill evil witches with real estate. And flying monkeys.

Jaws: Shark in the water. People go into the water. Shark kills people.

Bambi: Forest fire kills deer.

King Kong: Giant Ape climbs Empire State building. Killed by guns on planes. Falls to death. Remake every thrity years.

The Godfather. Just lots of killing, everywhere. With cool dialogue.

Godzilla: Lots of ineffectual plastic models of tanks try to kill guy in big rubber monster suit with guns. Guy in monster suit gets pissed, kills people in buildings.

Jurassic Park: See "Jaws" above. Replace "shark" with "dinosaur". Replace "water" with "island".

Who killed Roger Rabbit? A bunch of weird people trying to kill cartoons with turpentine.

The Matrix: Lots of computers die. Or people. Or people that look like computers. Or computers who think they're people. Or maybe none of it happened. Or maybe it's happening right now. All we know is that Keanu Reeves is a horrible actor, and chicks look hot in skintight black PVC outfits, even if they're kinda ugly, and some guy named Tank just completely disappears from the sequels.

Batman: I'm batman.

Finding Nemo. Fish Dies. Then a bunch of other stuff happens.

Rocky: Rocky and Apollo Creed gets hit alot with fists. A chicken.

Pulp Ficton: See "Godfather" above. Plus most creative use of the word "motherfucker". Ever. And a Gimp.

Mrs. Doubtfire: No one dies. Prosthetic breasts catch on fire. Funny.

And you knew this was coming:

Only The Strong: Drug dealer from the "worst barrio in Rio de Janeiro" tries to kill ex-marine / capoeira teacher for teaching his "primo" all about capoeira and honor. Weird freaky kid who offends ancient "ma-estres" with bad mix tape dies in fire.


<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Fri Feb 10 2006, 16:58 ]</span>
Manhoso113
Manhoso113

posts: 3693

02.10.2006 16:05   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
yes.. dance for me my monkeys! dance dance!
mistertwister
mistertwister

posts: 229

02.10.2006 18:06   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Godfather-Sicilian's kill Sicilians...and a horse.

I guess the almighty Capoeira Gods Punished Donovan.
russpowell
russpowell

posts: 281

02.10.2006 18:13   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
has anyone seen "the collector"? with mestre jamaika?
fominha
fominha

posts: 25

02.11.2006 01:12   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Once were warriors- "Jake the mus" almost kills "uncle "effin" bully" with a few left right jabs to the head and a chair, and a crate bottle or two. True NZ life, true as bro! choice
junior99

posts: 111

02.11.2006 01:44   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Cidade del Deus is a great movie :) watched it like 3 times and still like it.

Lord of the Rings-bunch of men kill goblins with swords and magic,frodo get's stabbed and has really bad nightmares.
The Hulk-a dude that is full on testosterone turns green and jumps around like a kangaroo + smashes everything he can get his hands on.
mistertwister
mistertwister

posts: 229

02.11.2006 09:25   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Please... Ive seen stuff on PBS that had more destruction that The Hulk movie !ill

And I think we got off topic reaaaaaaaal bad this time, so we should probably go back to the original question.

So montesco11, what is this guys name?
LoboGuara
LoboGuara

posts: 355

02.11.2006 09:58   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
One of the most effective ways to learn "Combat Capoeira" is to attempt to use what you know against free-style combatants. What I mean by that is streetfighters who will not flow with you.
When you play a hard game with another Capoeira, you still can't help but to "play" according to rhythm. In fighting, rhythm only exists when you are in control. When you are defending you can forget rhythm all together.

My advice - ask one of your buddies who has been in a lot of street fights to smack you around while you ATTEMPT to use you Capoeira skills. This will be a very frustrating process (Mine took 5 years) but eventually your body will develop an instinct for real fighting and you will actually be able to apply in combat the movements you practice in the game.

You can only do this with someone you can be honest with. Preferably a close friend. Otherwise, ego will get in the way of your learning.
Lawrencao
Lawrencao

posts: 107

02.11.2006 12:07   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
I don't know if there is an "Only the strong" bashing forum yet, but I see one coming in the future. :!
montesco11
montesco11

posts: 25

02.11.2006 13:08   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Only reason I ask is that "capoeira-bashing" has become relatively commonplace(i.e. it's not a real martial art kind of attitude....I'm sure you've all heard it.) Yet the slaves did use it to rebel and were relatively successful, Bimba was undefeated, and Siuzinho(sp?) wiped the floor with pretty much everyone he met. SO this leads me to believe that capoeira has alot of combat merit, and although i love to play the instruments, sing, and dance, I just wanna get some practical street application knowledge in here and there....I mean after all, that was, a hundred and a half years ago its primary function wasn't it?

anyways, thanks for the input guys...and i'd love to hear more.
Manhoso113
Manhoso113

posts: 3693

02.11.2006 15:10   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
ask yourself a few questions first..
What does it mean to be a "legitimate" martial art.
What are the conditions which capoeira came from as opposed to other MA.
What is the measureing stick by which MA's are compared to and when was the meeting, cuz I wasnt invited.
Lastly.. who cares what other people think, I gave that up after the 9th grade. My bro is a three year Muay Thai & kali student, and fell for a simple bencao in the stomach after he was talking shit..is muay thai not legit now?
montesco11
montesco11

posts: 25

02.11.2006 15:41   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
manhoso thats obviously the answer everyone's been giving to the comparing martial arts question that every single newbie including myself has asked....What I'm trying to see is: if i can reconnect with its combatitive roots....and wondering if anyone else has done, wants to, or has any advice on how to do so....

montesco
RageMysterio
RageMysterio

posts: 54

02.11.2006 17:32   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
I recommend you research
"capoeira carioca"
A nice site to start is

http://www.carfweb.net/capoeira/








[b][size=16][color=red][center]I don't play with my life...
I'd rather play with yours[/center][/color][/size][/b]
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sat Feb 11 2006, 18:33 ]</span>
corvoLK
corvoLK

posts: 1022

02.11.2006 21:25   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
[quote=montesco11]manhoso thats obviously the answer everyone's been giving to the comparing martial arts question that every single newbie including myself has asked....What I'm trying to see is: if i can reconnect with its combatitive roots....and wondering if anyone else has done, wants to, or has any advice on how to do so....

montesco[/quote]

You'll just have to find the right person with the most fight experience and train hard toward that goal. keep it simple, be real and work it hard. nothing more then staying in shape after that. good luck with it.

Corvo

perguntas
perguntas

posts: 83

02.11.2006 22:28   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
the best fighters use the simplest movements.
junior99

posts: 111

02.12.2006 01:02   Quote
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interesting story about capoeira carioca :) but still if u held knives our-days while playing some1 you'd probably cut them up :D
LoboGuara
LoboGuara

posts: 355

02.12.2006 14:30   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Manhoso offered some excellent questions. I will attempt to answer them.

"What does it mean to be a "legitimate" martial art."

There is no such thing really. There are legitimate fighters, and people who dilude themselves to believe they can fight by going to the gym and throwing some kicks.

"What are the conditions which capoeira came from as opposed to other MA."

Usually one of two. Millitary training, or oppressed people fighting back. Muai Thai and many Japanese forms came from a similar situation as Capoeira.

"What is the measureing stick by which MA's are compared to and when was the meeting, cuz I wasnt invited."

Usually things are best quantified with contact. One guy's ass hits the floor, and the other is still standing. One guy can't breathe, and the other is waiting. Still, you're right, this says little about a martial art-form and a lot about the individuals applying it.

"Lastly.. who cares what other people think?"

Most Capoeira people don't seem to care what others think.

"My bro is a three year Muay Thai & kali student, and fell for a simple bencao in the stomach after he was talking shit..is muay thai not legit now? "

1. Perhaps this was not a real fight. Was it?
2. Good point. Your bro should not be used to gauge the power of Muai Thai. In the same way martial artists tend to claim Capoeira's weakness according to people who "play", not fight. That is, in fact, poor judgement, but we must also understand the reason for this. Capoeira fighting is not as common for people to see. The best measure would be a Capoeira Mestre vs. a Thai fighter who respect each other.
3. Just because one trains in a "legit" martial art-form does not mean that the SYSTEM in place to train it is meant for combat. I know guys who have been studying Thai for years, and they are not any more combat ready than a model girl who takes tae bo. However, someone trained in a fighting environment is a force to reckon with regardless of style.

1. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BEST MARTIAL ART.
2. THERE ARE ONLY PEOPLE AND SITUATIONS.
3. YOU FIGHT LIKE YOU TRAIN.
junior99

posts: 111

02.13.2006 11:46   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
Ax'e! :D
russpowell
russpowell

posts: 281

02.13.2006 13:18   Quote
Points: 0   Vote
you asked: "What I'm trying to see is: if i can reconnect with its combatitive roots....and wondering if anyone else has done, wants to, or has any advice on how to do so.... "


go to brazil. train with a school that is associated with the CBC (brazilian confederation of capoeira) and enter competitions. Or train with someone who has competed in CBC tournaments. In the US, i know from Capuraginga, Mestre Loka, Mestre Demetrius and Mestrando Jamaika have all been champions in the CBC in the late '90's, not sure about anyone elses group.
LoboGuara
LoboGuara

posts: 355

02.13.2006 15:15   Quote
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CBC ? Sounds good. What level of contact is allowed in these tourneys? Is it based on a point system? Is it based on a timed round? Please elaborate.
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