Yes its high time we discussed some philosophy I recently moved and one of my room mates mother does tai chi. From a recent thread a while back , I think some similarities where made between these two art forms. My room mates mother has seen me use capoeira movements to work out and she is very intrigued (she is Chinese) and has explained some of the concepts to me. Although we can say it is far east philosophy, I believe the ideas are much older regardless the concepts seem to go beyond national or ethnic boundaries. I do like some of her explanation but went over my head because she was using tai chi as her focus point.

Although in capoeira circles, we seem to use in-out, small-big, far-close etc do these concepts hold water in capoeira as a whole or are the different expressions (angola/regional) more one way in which case they tend to want to balance each other or am I just scratching the surface?

how about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRgIO9dIlOo&feature=share

you could argue we all move the same way because we are humans. the subtlies of movement depend on the context, so yes in capoeira there are inside and outside games and I'm sure that concept is held in tai chi. But they are still seperate entities not two facets of the same thing, I think the vid above (nicked from someone else must admit I didn't find it) shows what happens when two arts with similiar concepts are blended. You end up with a travesty of both because their roots are different, the whole story doesn't exist in just the movements rather the concepts connected to them.

Thanks for sharing Lennon...I must say I reserve my comments. Why just can' t they call it capoeira angola? or even capoeira to be politcally correct? You can certainly blend both arts as they are taught distinct...however we will have to agree...each art must be understood before breaking the "proverbial rules". I am speaking English to you and if I broke into an African dialect you more than likely will be like WTF? Someone may argue well broken English can be communicated as a language (which is a blending of languages)...but if one looks at the context it is profane and ultimately based on disregarding the "rules" of either language, I digress but good post regardless...

@laite

The matter is soooooo complicated we cannot begin to unfold it even as simplistic as described. As lennon has desribed above most of the movements mentioned are very similar in that they are natural human movements. "Yin and Yang" the word is a chinese invention, meaning the words that convey the idea of the natural oppossing and complementary force in our universe...seen and unseen. This is basically at a fraction (degree will be the correct choice word) of what the roda actually represents. While capoeirstistas use the words, small-big, in-out, far-close to describe our concepts of moving...these I believe are just for the layman terms for people to understand...it is the process of becoming small-big in relation to the participant(s) in the roda that makes the yin/yang come alive...it is always relationship or relativeness to something. For example, a rabo de arrai...one foot planted the other kicking (that relationship) then what your partner is about to do then does (again relationship) then we can complicate things even more...other body parts, your breath, the music, the attitudes etc are still part of this matrix...unfortunately this goes beyond the scope of this here board. Science and other expressions have broken a lot of this things down, unfortunately they are MOSTLY physical aspects...yep the yin!

 Nothing is beyond the scope of good discusion. So if the roda reflects the world can actions within it effect yourf relationship and perception of the world (not just in a `i couldn't do acrobatics today I suck') but in a more general overview. Has what you have learnt in capoeira rodas influenced your interactions with others outside the roda?

Bom! I get it, just seems difficult to get some of the ideas down

It depends...how do you approach capoeira? for those who believe the roda is continuum then actions taken in the roda are reflective of things outside the roda. A better way to put it, whatever your true personality is tends to show up more in the roda. When you enter a roda, you have no clue on the intention(s) of your partner/adversary...you shake hands and enter that world; in this world any and many things can happen...in this world it is only perception and consequences to be simplisitic...if you are more yang (overall), then a good partner/adversary will yin more so...this moments when we reflect after we have left the "little" world we tend to see semblances...for me, the adversary is actually oneself...how can we not see the roda actually transmits information to our RODA?

After saying this...I also know capoeira is a forked tongue...lol

There is yin and yang on capoeira.com

Lenon, clear questions, gives yin. While Ejodudo, yang, impenetrable all knowing shite!

x

 lever, thanks :0) But I understand ejodudo's post which means to Me, his words are yin, but to you yang........ hmmmmmmm maybe ying and yang qualities are the product of an interaction between 2 people rather than each individual. Rather like the capoeira game. ;0)

Lennon I think Ejodudu, Corvo is suggesting there is this yin yang in every single aspect of life, which I agree. I am just trying to relate it to our world of capoeira. What other place than the roda right? It seems an individual still has yin yang because we are breathing and moving, then this concept can be expanded to two people interacting in the center. Also there is interaction with everyone/being present in the roda, from thee bateria to the unlookers. Very interesting, very confusing though

Darn nice one Lever! how will you translate it in the game of capoeira (your own point of view)?

Hi Laite,

I dunno how I'd apply the yinyang of capoeira.com in the roda!

I did spend a few years practicing tai chi a while back, from that, tai chi concepts that could be useful in capoeira are things like:

Relaxation - you will be more efficient if when relaxed.

Grounding - keeping a low centre of gravity.

Power generation - upward power comes from the ground, this can be useful to have in mind for cabeca, or vingativa.

Sensitivity - in tai chi, you spend hours doing push hands, two person drills where you are trying to find weak points in your partners balance, whilst maintaining your own.

Weight shifting - time is spent practicing slow weight transfer between legs, going from empty to full.

Circles - arm movement.

Not that capoeira ~needs~ all / any of that stuff, eg I've seen effective players who don't seem grounded, who seem light and to be permanently off balance, falling, but are adept at landing, shifting, tranforming movements.

Sorry that's not so yinyang / circle of life / energy /chi related.

You might find this interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JuofZY3q6Tg from http://concretebeat.blogspot.de/2007/10/martial-street-art-tai-chi-bagua.html

Thanks Lever! I did ask how you understand the concept as it applies to capoeira lol also thanks for the link, I had run into Mr. Roberto Sharpe's videos a while back quite an interesting character, unfortunately he did not speak to much in depth about capoeira

He mentioned something about "warrior arts".

I only added the clip at the end of the post as I remembered him from a while back.

I do remember he spoke about "wave hands like clouds" and jinga movement, but I can't find that one.

This is all very interesting.  Would you say that capoeira resembles eastern arts?  Are concepts from capoeira and tai chi interchangeable?

Are you asking to be engaged or asking just to ask?...rehashing old threads without a context will slowly elicit alienation...

Yes Capoeira resembles "eastern arts", yes some of capoeira concepts can be potentially interchangeable with tai chi; however unless you do "eastern arts "  or tai chi you WILL never innerstand the similarities. Two things can look similar but are indeed different, for that matter two things can look different but are much similar...